Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installation

[tacapez]

Hello,
First of all, I'm Brazilian so forgive me if I make some english's mistakes, ok? I'm improving!
I ask you to be patient with me because I'm full of questions about my new pickups and how to install them!

I have a Fender Fat-Strato (Humbucker-Single-Single) and I'm buying new pickups for it. My chose is:

JB (Humbucker) - Bridge
Cool Rails - Middle
Little '59 - Neck

My first question about is: Are the Cool Rails and Little '59 Stacks? Some people over here think they are, they said to me that they're like just one coil working and the other is just for hum-canceling. What's the real thing about Single-Coil-Sized Humbuckers and Stacks? May I expect a Humbucker sound or close to? And they say that when I turn off one of the coils they sound weak and thin... they lose power and that they have more noise than a regular Single-Coil. Is that true? Some guys over here are trying to convince me not to do a SPLIT switch on my Pups, just do some other thing like Inverting the Phase. What you think?

Now, talking about the pickup's installation:

- First I want a Push-Push Pot to turn-off/switch at one touch all 3 Humbuckers to Singles so I can change between ALL humbuckers or ALL singles, I think it would be fine at the VOLUME. (http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/schematics/3lil_hum_1v_2t_5w_3splits.html)

- I also want to use the Bridge WITH the Neck so I thought I could install a switch to turn ON the Bridge, no matter which position I put the 5 Way Key. (http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/schematics/switch_f_bp.html) On this Schematic I should use the VOLUME, but if I'm already using the volume to Switch between Humbucker/Single Can I use a TONE one? Should I use a different Schematic? Still at this one: Is possible to use the TONE's pot I installed these Push-Push Switch to control Bridge's VOLUME so I can MIX/Blend Bridge's volume with the other ones? In this case, may I have TONE's (too much bass/treble) problems if I don't use the TONE control at the Cool Rails (Middle)? How should I expect it to sound like? More Bass or Treble? Like Full TONE or None TONE?

- Last but also important: And if I want to disable the Neck's TONE and turn it into a Neck's individual VOLUME (like the Bridge VOLUME)? On the guitar I'll have 3 VOLUME's pots! 1-General Volume / 2-Neck Volume / 3-Bridge Volume. Again but referring to Little '59: May I have TONE's (too much bass/treble) problems if I don't use the TONE control at the Little '59 (Neck)? How should I expect it to sound like? More Bass or Treble? Like Full TONE or None TONE?

WOW! A lot of things!
If there's something that is impossible to make, please tell me and if you have some different tips, I'm listening!
Suppose that everything here is possible, can someone make a special Schematic for me explaining what should I do?
I'd really appreciate if you guys answer me even if just to say: "We can't answer you about it!" or "You're insane, cut the drugs!"
Thank you very much!!!!!
Best regards!
Gus

 

[Artie]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

Hello,
First of all, I'm Brazilian so forgive me if I make some english's mistakes, ok? I'm improving!
I ask you to be patient with me because I'm full of questions about my new pickups and how to install them!

No problem. Welcome to the forum.

My first question about is: Are the Cool Rails and Little '59 Stacks?

Cool Rails and the Lil 59 are built just like regular humbuckers, but with narrower coils. The coils lay side-by-side, with the magnet underneath. They're just small.

- First I want a Push-Push Pot to turn-off/switch at one touch all 3 Humbuckers to Singles so I can change between ALL humbuckers or ALL singles, I think it would be fine at the VOLUME. (http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/schematics/3lil_hum_1v_2t_5w_3splits.html)

No problem there. That schematic will work great.

I also want to use the Bridge WITH the Neck so I thought I could install a switch to turn ON the Bridge, no matter which position I put the 5 Way Key. (http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/schematics/switch_f_bp.html) On this Schematic I should use the VOLUME, but if I'm already using the volume to Switch between Humbucker/Single Can I use a TONE one? Should I use a different Schematic? Still at this one: Is possible to use the TONE's pot I installed these Push-Push Switch to control Bridge's VOLUME so I can MIX/Blend Bridge's volume with the other ones? In this case, may I have TONE's (too much bass/treble) problems if I don't use the TONE control at the Cool Rails (Middle)? How should I expect it to sound like? More Bass or Treble? Like Full TONE or None TONE?

The switch on a push-pull pot is electrically independent of the pot. So, it doesn't matter where you physically place it. Use one of the tone pots to switch the bridge will be fine. That schematic is fine also. If you want to control the volume of the bridge, you might be better off to combine the switching and volume into one control - ala - the Fralin blend control.

Last but also important: And if I want to disable the Neck's TONE and turn it into a Neck's individual VOLUME (like the Bridge VOLUME)? On the guitar I'll have 3 VOLUME's pots! 1-General Volume / 2-Neck Volume / 3-Bridge Volume. Again but referring to Little '59: May I have TONE's (too much bass/treble) problems if I don't use the TONE control at the Little '59 (Neck)? How should I expect it to sound like? More Bass or Treble? Like Full TONE or None TONE?

I wouldn't recommend this. You're getting into a level of complexity thats asking for trouble, for little to no benefit. You can't really make a passive mixer, which is what you're trying to do. You'll have the "load" of all three volume pots on at one time which will probably sound awful.

Hopefully, others will chime in with other ideas. You have a lot of options with that setup. Once you come to a final plan, we can get you a diagram.

Artie

 

[tacapez]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

No problem. Welcome to the forum.

Thanks!

Cool Rails and the Lil 59 are built just like regular humbuckers, but with narrower coils. The coils lay side-by-side, with the magnet underneath. They're just small.

Just for understanding: Are the Stacks and the Single-Coil Sized Humbuckers the same thing? Does the Stack has one coil just for hum canceling?

I wouldn't recommend this. You're getting into a level of complexity thats asking for trouble, for little to no benefit. You can't really make a passive mixer, which is what you're trying to do. You'll have the "load" of all three volume pots on at one time which will probably sound awful.

I agree with that! I was out of my mind when I wrote that!

Hopefully, others will chime in with other ideas. You have a lot of options with that setup. Once you come to a final plan, we can get you a diagram.

I hope so!!!

NEW IDEA: And if I put a 3 way switch key for this options:
Middle Position: Full Pups
Up Position: Series/Parallel Switch
Down Position: Split Pups

What do you think?

I really want opinions about splitting these Single-Coil Sized Humbuckers, do they sound thin and weak? In comparison to Standard Singles or Stacks, how do they sound?

Thank you a lot!
Best regards!
Gus

 

[Artie]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

Just for understanding: Are the Stacks and the Single-Coil Sized Humbuckers the same thing? Does the Stack has one coil just for hum canceling?

Close, but not exactly. A stack is called that because the two coils are physically "stacked", one atop the other, so that they fit easier into a single-coil cover. Single-coil-sized humbuckers are a side-by-side configuration just like their big brothers, only narrower coils.

I agree with that! I was out of my mind when I wrote that!

Nah. I come up with crap like that all day long.

NEW IDEA: And if I put a 3 way switch key for this options:
Middle Position: Full Pups
Up Position: Series/Parallel Switch
Down Position: Split Pups

What do you think?

Anything's possible with electronics, but there are practical limitations in guitar wiring, especially taking into account one's experience level. I could probably do that function using a bipolar transmogrifier and some baling wire, but if you have to ask . . .

Seriously though, you can really only do one pickup in parallel with a single switch. Splitting, hoever, can be done using that first diagram you posted.

I really want opinions about splitting these Single-Coil Sized Humbuckers, do they sound thin and weak? In comparison to Standard Singles or Stacks, how do they sound?

Someone else will have to answer this. Its been so long since I've had the little pups, I can't even remember if I split them.

 

[Artie]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

Here's a possible idea that keeps it fairly simple and offers a lot of tonal options:

Use a master volume, master tone, and a blend pot. Make the tone control a push-pull to split the Cool Rails and Lil 59. Make the blend control a push-pull to split the JB. You can dial-in the JB whether split or full and combine it with any combination of the neck and middle.

 

[tacapez]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

Close, but not exactly. A stack is called that because the two coils are physically "stacked", one atop the other, so that they fit easier into a single-coil cover. Single-coil-sized humbuckers are a side-by-side configuration just like their big brothers, only narrower coils.

Does anybody have a Picture of an Single-Coil Sized Humbucker's inside so I can understand? Till now I thought it was 2 regular size coils one above the other... so, that Idea of Narrow coils gave me a creepy sensation that I'm about to experiment some thin and weak sound...

Seriously though, you can really only do one pickup in parallel with a single switch. Splitting, hoever, can be done using that first diagram you posted.

Great, at least now I know that series/parallel is a little harder.


NEW IDEA then:
Should I change my chose to a Regular Humbucker '59?

Thanks
Gus

 

[tacapez]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

Here's a possible idea that keeps it fairly simple and offers a lot of tonal options:

Use a master volume, master tone, and a blend pot. Make the tone control a push-pull to split the Cool Rails and Lil 59. Make the blend control a push-pull to split the JB. You can dial-in the JB whether split or full and combine it with any combination of the neck and middle.

GREAT Idea!!!

May I ask you something:
When I split just the JB, should I expect phase or noise trouble with the other Pups not split? And the opposite, with the Cool Rails and the Little '59 split and JB not split?

About the Blend Pot: When the JB is selected at the 5 way key and I turn on that Blend Pot... What happens? Will increase JB's volume? May this cause distortion?

Thanks again! (I didn't know that I was going to like so much of discuss this!)
Gus

 

[Artie]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

Here's a pic of an old-school Cool Rails. You can clearly see the two side-by-side coils:

And neither a Cool Rails or a Lil 59 are "thin and weak". If anything, they'll both have more punch and spank than the JB.

 

[tacapez]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

And neither a Cool Rails or a Lil 59 are "thin and weak". If anything, they'll both have more punch and spank than the JB.

I hope so! Now I just need to think of what am I going to do to get a perfect combinations of switches!

I'm waiting for answer to phase/noise problems using a split humbucker with a full humbucker (like you propose).

Thanks
Gus

 

[Artie]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

I'm waiting for answer to phase/noise problems using a split humbucker with a full humbucker (like you propose).

Thanks
Gus

You might get the normal amount of noise thats associated with single coils, but no more. And you may not even get that.

Btw - On the blend pot question, when you select the bridge with the 5-way, the blend pot is bypassed. It won't do anything. (Thats good.)

 

[tacapez]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

You might get the normal amount of noise thats associated with single coils, but no more. And you may not even get that.

Btw - On the blend pot question, when you select the bridge with the 5-way, the blend pot is bypassed. It won't do anything. (Thats good.)

That's great!
I think that should be my chose!

Just 2 last questions before ask for the schematic to install them:
1-At VOLUME pot could I install a Push-Push Pot to switch between Bridge's series and parallel? What I want to know is: it's possible to make all these things listed for you and ALSO a Push Push Pot to switch Series/Parallel at Bridge Pup? Will require more than just the Pots and Pup's wires? Do you think it could be good or is just too much, I should stop on that tip you posted?
2-Your personal opinion, should I use the general TONE to control ALL PUPS or just Neck and Middle?

Thank you so much, you're helping me a lot, made things very clear for me!
Gus

 

[DazH]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

It's a standard amount of buzz when split, the split cool rails is my favourite sound of all, very funky warm bass tone.

 

[Artie]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

Just 2 last questions before ask for the schematic to install them:
1-At VOLUME pot could I install a Push-Push Pot to switch between Bridge's series and parallel? What I want to know is: it's possible to make all these things listed for you and ALSO a Push Push Pot to switch Series/Parallel at Bridge Pup? Will require more than just the Pots and Pup's wires? Do you think it could be good or is just too much, I should stop on that tip you posted?
2-Your personal opinion, should I use the general TONE to control ALL PUPS or just Neck and Middle?

Sure, you can do a push-pull to do series/parallel on the bridge. Its fairly common for someone to start with a fairly complex wiring scheme, then use that to do decide which functions they'll actually use. Then, later, rewire the guitar with just the options you really need. Its the best way to learn what works for you.

And Yes, I would do a master tone control for all pups.

As for a diagram, I'd be happy to do one, but I'm a little behind right now. I still owe a few to some forum bro's. If you aren't in a huge hurry, I'll get to it as soon as possible. I'm just moving slower these days.

Artie

 

[Artie]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

It's a standard amount of buzz when split, the split cool rails is my favourite sound of all, very funky warm bass tone.

Thats good to know. I never split mine when I had them. Now I'm GAS'ing for another.

 

[tacapez]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

Sure, you can do a push-pull to do series/parallel on the bridge. Its fairly common for someone to start with a fairly complex wiring scheme, then use that to do decide which functions they'll actually use. Then, later, rewire the guitar with just the options you really need. Its the best way to learn what works for you.

So fine, and I agree with you, I think now I want a lot of possibilities so I can experiment, try it on! Probably some day I'll give up of something that I just don't use!

I'm preety sure about what I want now:

------------------------------------------------------------

MASTER VOLUME:
pot-Controls MASTER VOLUME
push-SWITCH BRIDGE'S SERIES/PARALEL

MASTER TONE:
pot-Controls MASTER TONE
push-SWITCH NECK & MIDDLE'S HUMBUCKER/SINGLE

BRIDGE'S BLEND VOLUME:
pot-Controls BRIDGE'S BLEND VOLUME (when is not selected)
push-SWITCH BRIDGE'S HUMBUCKER/SINGLE

------------------------------------------------------------

As for a diagram, I'd be happy to do one, but I'm a little behind right now. I still owe a few to some forum bro's. If you aren't in a huge hurry, I'll get to it as soon as possible. I'm just moving slower these days.

Well, I'll be honest with you: I have nobody to help me with the diagram. I'll send an e-mail do Seymour Duncan, perhaps they can help me. Anyway I'd be grateful if you could help me. Probably my Pups will get here in a month (June), till there if you have some free time to do that for me I would apreciate!

Thank you very much for all your patient with a Layman First Travel Guitarist!
You helped me a lot, I don't know how to retribute this to you!
Well, hope talk to you soon, please feel free to send me an e-mail if you can help me with that Diagram, ok?

guspotenza@7citiesband.com

Thanks again!
Gus

 

[Fender_Punk]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

- Last but also important: And if I want to disable the Neck's TONE and turn it into a Neck's individual VOLUME (like the Bridge VOLUME)? On the guitar I'll have 3 VOLUME's pots! 1-General Volume / 2-Neck Volume / 3-Bridge Volume. Again but referring to Little '59: May I have TONE's (too much bass/treble) problems if I don't use the TONE control at the Little '59 (Neck)? How should I expect it to sound like? More Bass or Treble? Like Full TONE or None TONE?

This is actually quite easily possible. You're alredy in complex territory, but it's for ultimate versatility, so why not. here's the small addition you make:

http://www.guitarelectronics.com/product/WDUH00101

NOTE: when you activate the tone the volume is on full. Hopefully you haven't modded your guitar yet, so you can add this!! Have fun and good luck!

 

[tacapez]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

Thanks Fender Punk!
That's something to think about!
I'm thinking in stay with the last diagram I've posted... I thinks it's already complex for me... I was seriously thinking on take out the Series/Parallel switch, but ArtieToo said is possible so I think: "Why not?"
Anyway, thank you so much for your tip!

Have you seen this configuration I've posted? There's already a diagram for that? As you see, Artie can't help me right now, so I'm looking for some help. I already wrote to Seymour Duncan and I hope they return me with the diagram!

Thanks again!
Gus

 

[Fender_Punk]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

Thanks Fender Punk!
That's something to think about!
I'm thinking in stay with the last diagram I've posted... I thinks it's already complex for me... I was seriously thinking on take out the Series/Parallel switch, but ArtieToo said is possible so I think: "Why not?"
Anyway, thank you so much for your tip!

Have you seen this configuration I've posted? There's already a diagram for that? As you see, Artie can't help me right now, so I'm looking for some help. I already wrote to Seymour Duncan and I hope they return me with the diagram!

Thanks again!
Gus

No problem. I have seen everything you wanted in separate diagrams but not combined into one. I could try to take a stab at it and have my guitar expert friend check it over and if it's a go send it to you. This is sort of a good thing it hasn't been done before, as it shows you're willing to go into unchartered waters, I sort of like the set up you got going, but still reccomend the volume(blend)/tone push/pull for the bridge pup rather than a series/split on the bridge volume.

For a future Strat, check out this: http://www.1728.com/guitar2.htm
It's my favourite Strat mod i've ever come across, it's in my Squier Strat with a Lace Sensor Red Bridge and WOW! So many possibilities, so keep that handy for your next Strat.

I'll try with the help of others to draw up what you want and if successful will post it. Hopefully someone else will two and that way we can compare diagrams! I have an essay due Friday and a couple assignments so if you give me until Saturday or Sunday I'll do my best to draw your dream wiring!

Take care, welcome to the forum, and you're English is quite good considering it's your second language!!

 

[DazH]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

if it's your 1st time, be patient witht he series/parallel switch. My god it's a fiddly and precise job. Not to scare you, just make sure you have a good pair of tweezers, your fingers will be too big for the job.

 

[tacapez]

Re: Stack vs Single Sized Humbuckers / Opinions on Strat's Switch/Split Pups Installa

No problem. I have seen everything you wanted in separate diagrams but not combined into one. I could try to take a stab at it and have my guitar expert friend check it over and if it's a go send it to you. This is sort of a good thing it hasn't been done before, as it shows you're willing to go into unchartered waters, I sort of like the set up you got going

I'd appreciate if you could help me with this!

but still reccomend the volume(blend)/tone push/pull for the bridge pup rather than a series/split on the bridge volume.

I think that's too much for me... I actually don't even use my strat's tone control, putting a MASTER TONE is an attempt to use it more often. I really believe that's awesome but I think it wouldn't be in my case specifically, not YET! Once again I thank you for the tip!

For a future Strat, check out this: http://www.1728.com/guitar2.htm
It's my favourite Strat mod i've ever come across

I've seen this and I must confess I got tempted, but this Guitar was given to me from my good friend and cousin, then I'm trying not to change the "regular fender strat" look. Trying to keep it the way it "was" when was his guitar!

I'll try with the help of others to draw up what you want and if successful will post it. Hopefully someone else will two and that way we can compare diagrams! I have an essay due Friday and a couple assignments so if you give me until Saturday or Sunday I'll do my best to draw your dream wiring!

That would be so nice! I'll have a life debt with you!

I'm thinking of what our friend DazH said:
"if it's your 1st time, be patient with the series/parallel switch. My god it's a fiddly and precise job. Not to scare you, just make sure you have a good pair of tweezers, your fingers will be too big for the job."

Do you really think this probably would be an IMPOSSIBLE thing for a human being? Do you thin I must give up switching series/parallel?

I must confess that even without it I'm excited already with the great number of possibilities... so, I need opinions about it. If it won't be necessary/useful at all, I think I can live without it!

Take care, welcome to the forum, and you're English is quite good considering it's your second language!!

I've been practicing my english since I was 12, singing in english, talking with friends and also making a lot of international friends. My writing/reading is better than my speaking... but as I said, I'm improving!!!

Thanks again!
Gus