Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

[TwilightOdyssey]

I have always been a much bigger fan of boosts than overdrive. I was the only guitar player in my last two bands and it worked just fine. In my current project, however, there are two guitar players and there is more of a need to cut without necessarily adding a mountain of level. I started playing around with stacking boosts and overdrives and am REALLY happy with the way it sounds, particularly with Marshall style amplifiers.

I need 4 sounds for this project: clean, edge of breakup, crunch with a small level boost, solo boost. I ended up stacking the following into either Channel A of a Marshall or into one of my single channel amplifiers:

JCollocia Horus (low gain OD) > Way Huge Green Rhino > Bogner Harlow

All off is clean, the Horus cuts the bass a bit and adds dynamic gain (the gain increases with pick attack); the Green Rhino stacked with the Horus tightens up the tone even more and provides crunch. When I engage the Harlow (compression is all the way down), it gives a level boost for solos.

I have a strymon DECO at the end of the board which adds a bit of compression as well. The Neve transformer in the Harlow also adds a dimension that my Philospher's Tone doesn't have.

So whilst I still prefer using stacked boost pedals, in a two-guitar situation, OD definitely seems to be the better option for cutting through the bigger sound and frequency masking from the other guitarist.

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

You've discovered one of the big secrets; this is how I do hard rock gigs with vintage output strats. Stacking boosts and overdrives allows me to go from a whisper to a scream at the tap of a button.

As for frequency masking, one of the biggest soundman nightmares is two guitars identical in tone. Two metal guitarists are the worst... they're always trying to get the biggest of all possible sounds out of their cabs without a single thought to the ensemble sound, and two of them will just stomp all over each other. In cases like that your soundman is probably just gonna decide which of you is most important and sacrifice the other. I witnessed exactly that at a queensryche show a couple weeks back.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

I have heard amazing sounds with stacked overdrives...but they never came from me. Generally, 1 OD and compressor, or a really great amp will do it for me.

 

[Securb]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

The Rev stacks 6 overdrives with other varrious fuzzes, distortions and boost pedals in the chain.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

I have heard amazing sounds with stacked overdrives...but they never came from me..

Same with me, but with P90s. Love them when other people are using them.

 

[The JEM Ghost]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

I have heard amazing sounds with stacked overdrives

+1 for me on that one.
I don't stack any myself either, big thing with stacking them is you really need "quiet" pedals or the hiss is amplified into a bigger one every time you stack an OD or distortion pedal, that's the main reason I don't do it myself, feedback can become an issue as well with stacked OD devices.
But I certainly heard nice sounds comming from stacked OD pedals, no doubt there!

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

+1 for me on that one.
I don't stack any myself either, big thing with stacking them is you really need "quiet" pedals or the hiss is amplified into a bigger one every time you stack an OD or distortion pedal, that's the main reason I don't do it myself, feedback can become an issue as well with stacked OD devices.
But I certainly heard nice sounds comming from stacked OD pedals, no doubt there!

When you have the whole band playing it's less of a problem than you think unless you're using a ridiculous amount of gain. Message to guitarists from a pro sound guy:85% of you these days are into extreme overkill territory on your distortion!

 

[Thundermtn]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

When you have the whole band playing it's less of a problem than you think unless you're using a ridiculous amount of gain. Message to guitarists from a pro sound guy:85% of you these days are into extreme overkill territory on your distortion!

That doesn't exist! LOL

It should sound like a T-Rex fight next to the exhaust nozzles of a 747.

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

That doesn't exist! LOL

Listen to some metal from the 70s or 80s. They managed to be brutally heavy without getting silly with their gain. You can too, and your soundman will like you better.

Articulation is king.

 

[Thundermtn]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

I know, I'm just effn with you. Sad thing is I didn't figure it out until I was 30.

 

[VinceT]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

+1 from me too. My gain order is:

BYOC Silver Pony (Klone) - set low gain and high level
Fulltone OCD - set high gain, low level
Xotic SP Comp - light compression, just to smooth things out (and lift clean tones)
TC Spark Mini - level boost for solos

All of that goes into the front of my custom Whitney amp (Vox AC15-ish), which also has a second cascading gain stage as an option.

(There's also an Xotic EP Booster in the loop, but it's always on at unity with my El Capistan.)

This rig gives me everything I need for both bands I play in currently.


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[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

That sounds great. Any audio clips?

 

[stratguy23]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

As for frequency masking, one of the biggest soundman nightmares is two guitars identical in tone. Two metal guitarists are the worst... they're always trying to get the biggest of all possible sounds out of their cabs without a single thought to the ensemble sound, and two of them will just stomp all over each other. In cases like that your soundman is probably just gonna decide which of you is most important and sacrifice the other.

Would panning similarly-toned guitars hard left and right alleviate that problem? I know that happens on recordings, but I don't know if it happens with live mixes.

 

[chadd]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

When you have the whole band playing it's less of a problem than you think unless you're using a ridiculous amount of gain. Message to guitarists from a pro sound guy:85% of you these days are into extreme overkill territory on your distortion!

Preach on, brother. It's funny when I'm thinking that I'm using too much gain while practicing at home, then having my tone sound damn near clean when compared to the other guy in my band running a Rat and Pickle stacked.

 

[SlyFoxx]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

I used to have to use just about every degree of distortion for a band gig. VH, Priest, AC/DC, Skynyrd, Creed, N back even Prince's Purple Rain. plus 20 or so originals. Two TS9's in conjunction with amp distortion and models from a GT-6...I needed lots to get the job done. But one TS9 run at 12 o'clock across the board into another run with the drive at 9 o'clock tone 11 o'clock and the level at 12 into a two channel amp with a boost function offers a lot of flexibility even without a processor like the GT-6.

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

Would panning similarly-toned guitars hard left and right alleviate that problem? I know that happens on recordings, but I don't know if it happens with live mixes.

That doesn't work at all live. What happens if you do that live is the people in the front third of the venue only hear the stuff coming out of the speaker nearest them.

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

Preach on, brother. It's funny when I'm thinking that I'm using too much gain while practicing at home, then having my tone sound damn near clean when compared to the other guy in my band running a Rat and Pickle stacked.

One big issue is the increasing desire to keep stage level low. Turning your amp down is thinning out your tone and robbing you of sustain, so people are trying to basically use gain in place of volume. But that's not all of it... even guys who play really loud just seem to wanna crank the gain up till it's just fizz. I was listening to Alice Cooper Goes to Hell earlier today and wishing more modern-day humbucker players would go for THAT sound... it's so much more ballsy and muscular than what you typically get today.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

I'm right there with you. My two setups I've been using for the past three years has been either:
-EP Boost into Full Drive 2 into Pinnacle
Or
-Archer Ikon into Clarksdale into Pinnacle

Everything from lightly distorted to heavy blues to 80's rock and heavy alternative.

 

[punchlinechar]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

Listen to some metal from the 70s or 80s. They managed to be brutally heavy without getting silly with their gain. You can too, and your soundman will like you better.

Articulation is king.

When you pay attention to it, Rust In Peace is not super gainy. Just a solid crunch from the amp, with a volume boost.

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[2ndhandband]

Re: Stacking overdrives -- I think I finally 'get' it!

When you pay attention to it, Rust In Peace is not super gainy. Just a solid crunch from the amp, with a volume boost.

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Correct. And you don't get any heavier than that! :headbang: