Still Lost Re Recording Gear

Lazarus1140

New member
I don't understand the basics of what needs to be assembled from a hardware standpoint (to get started recording on the computer).

Even without necessarily understanding all the parameters I think I can read the software specifications and determine the requirements for the computer itself, but it is my souncard/interface lack of knowledge that is bogging me down.

Does the basic computer already have a soundcard adequate for recording/playback? I see soundcards online with all the connecting cables attached, but are those for someone who wants to use those connections in lieu of an interface, and if so, where are the preamps?

Do I need an upgraded soundacard and an interface? Do some interfaces have integral soundcards?

I would like to do some song writing and recording and editing at home but don't know where to start. After I read descriptions and specifications for recording software products I am still in the dark concerning the additional purchases I'd have to make to assemble a functioning system.

Help!
 
Re: Still Lost Re Recording Gear

Toneport. It's all you need if you have a good computer. That's a great starting point imo, I made some really good recordings when I had one.
 
Re: Still Lost Re Recording Gear

yep, all i use is the toneport. check out the link in my signature. it's not the greatest sounding music, especially since i recorded with a laptop with the wireless still running(d'oh!) but my buddy and i recorded a variety of things through it. imo, it's best to not run any modeling software when mic'ing up or running an amp's line out.
 
Re: Still Lost Re Recording Gear

I think the Toneports come with a lite recording software package? Probably Ableton Live which is great, you'll have to check. The Toneports work for vocals, guitar, bass and keyboards. The bigger one has two inputs the small one just one.
 
Re: Still Lost Re Recording Gear

it comes with ableton live 5 lite(line 6 edition). it's great software, but it's only a demo version that allows you to record 4 tracks at a time. what i've been doing is i'll record 4 tracks, render it into a wav, and run the wav into audacity. audacity, which is free software, can run 16 tracks of whatever you put into it. so i've literally got 64 tracks when i combine the two.
 
Re: Still Lost Re Recording Gear

have you gotten any recording stuff yet?

My computer that I'm using is old and kinda slow so I haven't messed with it yet. I have another one that is newer but I need to move the Audigy Platinum soundcard from the old to the new so I can use the Creative interface that came with the card. Then I'll download Audacity and just see how it goes. The only thing this interface is missing is a low impedance mic input, but I have a small Behringer mixer with phantom power so I should be able to make it work.

It looks like Audacity, particularly since it's free, will be a good place to start.
After that, I have narrowed my selection down to Stienberg Cubase Essential 5, Adobe Audition 3, or perhaps Propellerhead Record.

Right now I'm only slowed down by switching and combining computers. The newer on is dual core and has a DVD whereas the old one doesn't. I'll have to call Dell to see which components are compatable so I can install all the memory etc. in the new one. I could have 240G hard drive if everything jives. The old machine is from 2003 and the new one is 2006.

Thanks for asking!
 
Re: Still Lost Re Recording Gear

sounds good. immortal6 pretty much only uses audacity and a toneport with the mic input straight into it, you could check out some clips he just posted for an example of how it sounds.
 
Re: Still Lost Re Recording Gear

I listened to the "basement clips" and they were really good. I downloaded Audacity on my old (current) machine just to see if it would work and it seems like it will. At least it didn't crash my computer.

Now I need to figure out why the program is not "hearing" my guitar through the interface. Argh
 
Re: Still Lost Re Recording Gear

Might need to change settings in the Control Panel, including default sound device, speaker volume (for some reason my XP system with the Audigy Platinum card+box combo keeps killing the volume), then check the settings in the Windows/Creative Mixer to make sure you've got the correct Input activated and not Muted, then check the Options in the recording app to make sure it's using the correct Input Source.
 
Re: Still Lost Re Recording Gear

Well, I finally got it to work by Line-In2/Mic2. I had been trying to use Analog Mix (Line/CD/Aux).

I still have many questions.

When I open the GENERATE menu and select CLICK TRACK it opens a click track and one additional track. Then, when I click on PROJECT to select NEW AUDIO TRACK it drops down two tracks. Apparently everything is happening in stereo (except the click track which prints in only one of its two tracks)

Is stero the default setting. How can I record mono if desired?

Can I control input gain inside the program or is the only control at the interface?

Also, is there a way to check recording levels while on standby?

Is it possible, in play mode, to stop or pause and the partially rewind without going all the way back to the begining.

Thus far I haven't attempted mic'ing the can which is the ultimate goal. I am just happy that it works. There seems to be now shortage of tutorials on YouTube, but I don't have the patience.

Any tips are sincerely appreciated
 
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Re: Still Lost Re Recording Gear

Audacity is fine.

The onboard sound of your computer might or might not be good for analog input.

The major reason why I use a PCI soundcard (as opposed to onboard) is that if I have to switch computers I want to take the soundcard with me, so that the result are consistent.

Ideally, you'd use digital in (S/PDIF) but that requires a device with S/PDIF out such as a Vox Tonelab.

Careful with USB soundcards. Many expensive ones don't have good analog in, many are USB1.1 etc.

In no event buy anything branded creative labs.
 
Re: Still Lost Re Recording Gear

Audacity is fine.

The onboard sound of your computer might or might not be good for analog input.

The major reason why I use a PCI soundcard (as opposed to onboard) is that if I have to switch computers I want to take the soundcard with me, so that the result are consistent.

Ideally, you'd use digital in (S/PDIF) but that requires a device with S/PDIF out such as a Vox Tonelab.

Careful with USB soundcards. Many expensive ones don't have good analog in, many are USB1.1 etc.

In no event buy anything branded creative labs.

Strangely enough that's exactly what I have. It is an Audigy Soundblaster Platinum soundcard with interface. It was a gift in 2003 and I think it is more geared more towards gaming than live recording. So even though it will likely be unsuitable in the long run it seems to be working beyond my skill level right now. I just don't want to invest in upgrades without knowing first that I'll be able to do anything with them. Can this old dog be taught a new trick if you know what I mean! I have a $300 Casio keyboard that I can't figure out using the manual and a magnifying glass.

Anyway, this interface has a massive multi-pin connector to the soundcard
The soundcard is in a PCI slot
The interface has an SPDIF input

This is all Greek to me. I am reading frpm the manual.
 
Re: Still Lost Re Recording Gear

I'm surprised no one mentioned Reaper.
It can be used for free for as long as you want, although you need to pay a license fee so you don't have to reinstall it. It's only a small fee.
I honestly don't understand why anyone would use Audacity when Reaper, which is pretty much a professional level program, is so easily available.

Interfaces ARE soundcards dude.
I would definitely sell out for a decent one, because better ones have better A/D/A converters than any of the cheap crap.
If you really want to obtain any decent results, and want to avoid latency issues, you should get an interface ASAP, since any regular computer sound card isn't going to cut it.
If you want to record quality guitar tones, the impedance of the input is a very important.
Ideally, you would buy a high quality DI box, then a decent interface, and have your DI box split some of the signal to your amplifier, so you can monitor your playing externally to reduce latency as much as possible, and then, later on, you can apply VST plug ins on the guitar track to process the dry signal.
Scoff all you want at amp modeling, but they have advanced so much in recent years to the point a lot of people can't tell the difference between amp modeling and real amps.
This is of course, provided you have a clue what you're doing anyway.

This might seem obvious, but always record with good strings, unless you're intentionally looking to play stuff that doesn't need good clarity and good intonation.
You'd be surprised what a massive difference new strings make in regards to tone clarity.

I should also warn you, once you get into recording, your perception of good guitar tone will most likely change massively.

I used to be a "b00sted midz" kinda guy, very anti scooped mids.
When I finally started learning about audio engineering and what good guitar tone actually is, I came to find that boosted mids actually sounds quite horrid.
Too little mids is bad, and too much mids is bad too.
For all frequencies, you need to learn to strike a balance. That might sound obvious, but it's far harder than you suspect.
 
Re: Still Lost Re Recording Gear

There's nothing wrong with the SB Audigy Platinum. True it's not what the pros use but then, frankly, you're not one of them. You have no burning need of zero-latency - the interface alone won't give you that, you'd need a smoking-hot PC dedicated strictly to that one function - no web-browsing, no email, no antivirus, etc.

You're not at that stage yet, so don't go shelling out money you can't spare for gear you don't need.


As for the track issues - go through the program's options menu and preferences settings and all the sub-menus to find everything in it. Somewhere in there you'll find the settings for default track/session layout (mono vs stereo, 44.1kHz vs 48kHz, etc).

The SPDIF input is also known as lightpipe and fiber optic. Your Casio might have an output that would connect to it, but it's not essential at this stage.

The Line In will do you just fine for now, and for about the next year or so as you learn the intricacies of PC-based recording.

One very important thing to remember is that the PC's speakers will never sound like your amp, unless your amp is made from PC speakers. This is usually the first complaint new recordists have, and it's always the one I find to be the most obvious. A 100w amp head into a 4x12 cabinet cranked and killing the neighbors cannot be matched by any self-powered external WalMart-bought PC speakers, even if they are 7.1 Surround Sound with a 6" woofer.

As well, most PC speakers are voiced to accentuate the bass (so those video game explosions and mp3s rock). You can throw a bunch of money at some full range/flat response self-powered studio monitors ($$$$$) but quite frankly, no one but the Puritanical audiophiles actually listen to pre-recorded music through them, and no one but the professional studio engineer who has to master tracks for all-system compatability actually needs them. They're a nice toy to impress your friends with, but that's about it.

Once you start recording tracks, get used to how different your tone is when comparing the amp to the PC speakers.

Above all, take your time. It's learning a new instrument, so nothing is going to happen overnight. Record a few things and put them on a CD and put it in your car stereo, your home stereo, and whatever else you can find. This will give you a good idea of how your mixes will sound in various systems, and you'll be able to dial in the EQ in your mixes to accommodate all of them equally.
But, as I said, that takes time. Your ears have to be trained to spot the things that need to be fixed in the mix, and only experience will tell you what needs to be fixed at the source (i.e. the amp or other input source).

Post-production EQ can only do so much, so the better sound you have going in, the better it's going to sound coming out.


Another major point many guitarists fail to realize is that everything in a mix has to work together. You can get away with a lot in a live setting - vocals and solos are sharing frequencies, bass and drums are competing for freqs, etc. In a recording situation, such is not the case. A low-level bass thump perfectly synched to the kick will stack on top of each other, increasing the output, and thus driving that one thump into Peak territory. Add a synchronized palm muted guitar chug to it and you've hit the Red Zone. That's where you blow speakers.

As well, when each one hits separately, they don't sound as heavy, so you find yourself trying to crank the gain on each one, only to have the 3-part stack thumping even harder than before, and still heavier than each component.

This is where Compression can be both a friend and a traitor.

Compression smoothes out the spikes. However, the higher the spike, the more it gets cut. So much so that where the 3-part thump was previously louder than anything else, it's now softer than anything else, and you have this odd "ssssSSSHHHHP" effect building up after each one, as well as what sound like cymbal swells where you didn't want one.


And that's only the very basics of PC recording. Wait till you get to the part where you have to pan mono tracks to keep them separate, and actually futzing with the graphic EQ to notch out certain frequencies.


People who complain about not being able to understand women have never experienced the greater challenge - sound engineering :lol:
 
Re: Still Lost Re Recording Gear

Here's some threads on another board I shamelessly recommend reading - since I wrote them :D

http://www.jcfonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24055
http://www.jcfonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24540
http://www.jcfonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93653

They're a few years old, and my gear has changed a bit, but the other info still works.


I also had one called MIDI and You or something like that - explained how to hook up MIDI devices to your PC. Can't find that one now :(
 
Re: Still Lost Re Recording Gear

Strangely enough that's exactly what I have. It is an Audigy Soundblaster Platinum soundcard with interface. It was a gift in 2003 and I think it is more geared more towards gaming than live recording. So even though it will likely be unsuitable in the long run it seems to be working beyond my skill level right now. I just don't want to invest in upgrades without knowing first that I'll be able to do anything with them. Can this old dog be taught a new trick if you know what I mean! I have a $300 Casio keyboard that I can't figure out using the manual and a magnifying glass.

My objections against Creative Labs don't have to do with the audio quality.

They have to do with their lousy drivers that just stop working way too often, sometimes cause data corruption, disable PAE, come late for 64 bits etc. On Linux the situation isn't much better since they refuse to document the cards enough to write drivers smoothly.

If it happens to run for you that's fine. But I don't recommend buying them.

Anyway, this interface has a massive multi-pin connector to the soundcard
The soundcard is in a PCI slot
The interface has an SPDIF input

This is all Greek to me. I am reading frpm the manual.

PCI == slowish bus with slots. Ignore.

S/PDIF == digital in. If you have a device with digital out you can "transport" the sound into the computer (aka recording) without any kind of change in the sound. Very good for reproducibility.
 
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