Stock single coil Japanese Jaguar pickups too shrill?

[auxjoel]

I just bought a 2020 "traditional 60s" Japanese Fender jagaur. Brand new w/ stock (single coil) pickups.
overall it's awesome, plays well, looks great and sounds damn good.
except for one thing: it seems to get a tad too harsh with distortion pedals.
my American Jazzmaster Pro (vintage 65 pickups) and my custom build offset (handwound p90s) and my early 90s Cij Japanese jaguar (stock single coils) take Distortion really well.
this 2020 Trad60 Japan Jaguar doesn't take distortion pedals poorly but it does have a noticeable bit of ear fatigue and an edge of shrillness that the others don't. Do you think a swapping of pickups would help?
I want to stick to single coils. But hoping a change to other single coils might retain that jangly jagaur awesomeness but work better with distortion?
I have limited knowledge, but from reading forums I'm lead to believe other things (apart from pickup replacing) that could cause this are:
- whether the pots are 500 or 1000
- if the pickups are raised too high in the guitar
Is that true ?

 

[idsnowdog]

You could try 500k pots for the master volume/tone. It would reduce the brightness slightly.

 

[auxjoel]

You could try 500k pots for the master volume/tone. It would reduce the brightness slightly.

Oh ok. I have no electrical knowledge so I would ask a guitar shop to do that for me.
Is there any other side effects of doing that , that I should be aware of?
another quick thought - the guitar came equipped with thin strings (9 and up) and they go out of tune after every song.
would changing to thicker (11 and up) strings have any change on this tone/harsh issue I'm experiencing?

 

[Mincer]

I think an EQ pedal or judicious use of the tone knob would solve this.

 

[auxjoel]

I think an EQ pedal or judicious use of the tone knob would solve this.

I've tried both those but it doesn't solve it unfortunately.

 

[Clint 55]

If there's a 1 meg volume in there, going to a 500k or 300k pot does a good job of reducing the shrillness while retaining the character of the pups. I recommend trying the mod yourself and then taking it to a tech if it's too tough.

 

[freefrog]

I just bought a 2020 "traditional 60s" Japanese Fender jagaur. Brand new w/ stock (single coil) pickups.
overall it's awesome, plays well, looks great and sounds damn good.
except for one thing: it seems to get a tad too harsh with distortion pedals.
my American Jazzmaster Pro (vintage 65 pickups) and my custom build offset (handwound p90s) and my early 90s Cij Japanese jaguar (stock single coils) take Distortion really well.
this 2020 Trad60 Japan Jaguar doesn't take distortion pedals poorly but it does have a noticeable bit of ear fatigue and an edge of shrillness that the others don't. Do you think a swapping of pickups would help?
I want to stick to single coils. But hoping a change to other single coils might retain that jangly jagaur awesomeness but work better with distortion?
I have limited knowledge, but from reading forums I'm lead to believe other things (apart from pickup replacing) that could cause this are:
- whether the pots are 500 or 1000
- if the pickups are raised too high in the guitar
Is that true ?

Hello,

Yes, tweaking pickups height allows to fine tune the tone and yes, if there's 500k or 1M pots in a guitar, the sound of single coils can be harsh.

BTW, the short scale of Jaguar alters their tone too, comparatively to other Fender instruments.

Anyway: If you have 500k / 1M pots and if their "taper" is not too important for you, you can change the resistance of your pots just by mounting... a resistor between the output and "ground" of each pot. Choose a 470k resistor for a 500k pot or a 330k for a 1M pot and you will change 'em in 250k pots.

But in fact, the same effect can be obtained just by lowering tone pots: as long as they are not below 3/10, their tone capacitor is not really engaged and their action is mostly resistive so it's the same than mounting pots of lower resistance.


Another trick, effective with single coils, is to tweak "stray capacitance".

A good musical example being better than a tedious tech explanation, here is what I'm talking about (the link is set to start the vid @ 6:41 in order to show the most dramatic effect but don't hesitate to watch the whole section where he's playing his Strat and listen):

https://youtu.be/u2sjeVQpS94?t=401

What you hear is the difference between a short lenght of cable and 75' of wire. But you don't need 75' of cable to obtain this tone : a capacitor of 3,9nF (0.0039µ) between hot and ground would do the same thing to your sound.

If you appreciate the sound with a defined length of cable in this video, just memorize this principle: each foot of cable added from the guitar typically measures 33pF to 50pF and can therefore be emulated by a capacitor of the same value from hot to ground (example: a 1nF cap has the same tonal effect than a 20' cable).

Hendrix or SRV used this phenomenon to obtain thick tone from bright single coils through long curly cables. If you want to understand what is going on, just read this page due to another famous pickups maker: http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/All_About_Tone.htm/CableandSound.htm

FWIW (= one of these long posts that I tend to produce each Sunday morning. LOL).

Good luck in your quest.

 

[auxjoel]

Hello,

Yes, tweaking pickups height allows to fine tune the tone and yes, if there's 500k or 1M pots in a guitar, the sound of single coils can be harsh.

BTW, the short scale of Jaguar alters their tone too, comparatively to other Fender instruments.

Anyway: If you have 500k / 1M pots and if their "taper" is not too important for you, you can change the resistance of your pots just by mounting... a resistor between the output and "ground" of each pot. Choose a 470k resistor for a 500k pot or a 330k for a 1M pot and you will change 'em in 250k pots.

But in fact, the same effect can be obtained just by lowering tone pots: as long as they are not below 3/10, their tone capacitor is not really engaged and their action is mostly resistive so it's the same than mounting pots of lower resistance.


Another trick, effective with single coils, is to tweak "stray capacitance".

A good musical example being better than a tedious tech explanation, here is what I'm talking about (the link is set to start the vid @ 6:41 in order to show the most dramatic effect but don't hesitate to watch the whole section where he's playing his Strat and listen):

https://youtu.be/u2sjeVQpS94?t=401

What you hear is the difference between a short lenght of cable and 75' of wire. But you don't need 75' of cable to obtain this tone : a capacitor of 3,9nF (0.0039µ) between hot and ground would do the same thing to your sound.

If you appreciate the sound with a defined length of cable in this video, just memorize this principle: each foot of cable added from the guitar typically measures 33pF to 50pF and can therefore be emulated by a capacitor of the same value from hot to ground (example: a 1nF cap has the same tonal effect than a 20' cable).

Hendrix or SRV used this phenomenon to obtain thick tone from bright single coils through long curly cables. If you want to understand what is going on, just read this page due to another famous pickups maker: http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/All_About_Tone.htm/CableandSound.htm

FWIW (= one of these long posts that I tend to produce each Sunday morning. LOL).

Good luck in your quest.

Thanks for your response.
How is I know what pot measurement I have. Is there some type of tool I would use to read whether it's 500k or 1m etc?
my other fender cij jagaur does not have this issue so maybe I should detect what pots it's running too.
thanks for the vid and other links that's not a bad test to run either. I shall find my longest cable and see if I can detect a difference.

 

[freefrog]

Thanks for your response.
How is I know what pot measurement I have. Is there some type of tool I would use to read whether it's 500k or 1m etc?
my other fender cij jagaur does not have this issue so maybe I should detect what pots it's running too.
thanks for the vid and other links that's not a bad test to run either. I shall find my longest cable and see if I can detect a difference.

Hi again,

The value of your pots is engraved on their housing, normally.

Regarding the "longest cable": lenght is in most cases a clue of high capacitance... but not always, since some wires are "low capacitance".
Hence my advice: if I had your problem I'd listen the vid mentioned in my message, then I'd select the section where the Strat is the most pleasing to hear, I'd notice the length of cable involved, I'd multiply each foot of cable involved by 33pF to 50pF and I'd try to find a cap approximating this value, in order to put it between hot and ground (it can be done from a standard cable whose male jack barrel has been unscrewed on one side, with a pair of alligator clips used to connect temporarily the capacitor).

For the record, I've a switchable 1nF cap in my main Strat: it avoids my ears to explode when I plug in a cranked Marshall... But a lower or higher capacitance than this might be required in your case. Nothing replaces direct experiments here.

Good luck again!

 

[Mincer]

This can also be a case where the traditional 60s style pickups are not a good match. You can always get them rewound by the Custom Shop..

 

[GuitarDoc]

Sounds like it could also be a magnet "problem". Could be ceramic mags in those pups (it sounds very typical of ceramic mags). I'm not familiar with Jaguar pups, but if they can be changed, changing to A5 could help.

 

[jeremy]

i run my jag pups with 250k pots and they sound great

 

[AlexR]

The spec sheet of your guitar (if its current and you can look it up online) might give you pot ratings if there is no obvious marking.
Some models in the midrange have beefy pickups, meaning your ideal tone might be based on a hotter wind. The new guitar could have more vintage strength pickups - they are a surf oriented guitar after all so that brash tone is in the DNA.