Stompbox or multi effect

[mmguz]

Re: Stompbox or multi effect

the pod xtlive sounds great in the fx return of my hot rod deluxe. If you tweak enough you can get really great quality tones,not the same as real tube amps but fopr just $399 it´s a great peace of gear.
For clean tones sounds great, l think it can sounds like the same that the amp preamp, and for distorted sounds much better than the hot rod deluxe with distortion stomps because of the model amps.

 

[audiodog]

Re: Stompbox or multi effect

Are boss and MXR pedals "buffered"?

 

[aleclee]

Re: Stompbox or multi effect

Are boss and MXR pedals "buffered"?

Yes, though IMO the Boss buffers are a cut above those in many MXR pedals.

 

[audiodog]

Re: Stompbox or multi effect

I'm not trying to start a heated arument, but I have always known True Bypass to be much better, that's what I've been told. And there are many pages of literature to back it up. For instance, these two paragraphs I found from this site:

"Buffered bypass is the technique of designing a high input impedance amplifier to go ahead of the actual effect circuitry. The input impedance of this buffer is high enough to avoid tone sucking, and it has an output impedance low enough to drive the rest of the effect with no loading even if the effect proper has a low input impedance. This also allowed electronic switching from dry to effected signals, and became a favorite of several Japanese electronic companies. The best example is probably the Ibanez xx-9 series, which includes the fabled Tube Screamer 808 and 9. These effects do not get a lot of reports of tone sucking, although purists sometimes demand that they be converted to true bypass.

True bypass is the standard of clean signal quality against which all other bypasses are measured. True bypass means that when the bypass switch is in the bypass position, the effect circuit is entirely disconnected, input and output, from the guitar's signal, and that the signal passes from the effect input to its output going only through wire and switch contacts.


Aren't they saying that true bypass is superior to Buffered??

 

[Ironjose]

Re: Stompbox or multi effect

Hey hello everyone what is "buffered" ???

 

[aleclee]

Re: Stompbox or multi effect

Aren't they saying that true bypass is superior to Buffered??

IMO, the answer is in your quoted text:

These effects do not get a lot of reports of tone sucking, although purists sometimes demand that they be converted to true bypass.

I find the phrase "purists sometimes demand" indicative that the bypass thing is more based in dogma than science. Speaking of science, as I pointed out earlier

...if you chain together a lot of "true" bypass pedals, the capacitance of the cable and connectors will suck tone, too. That is, unless you have a quality buffer in front of 'em.

In other words, if you have a pedalboard full of true bypass pedals without a buffer in front of your amp, you'll have tone suckage, especially if you have a significant cable between your pedalboard and amp.

Corollary: If you have one or more (quality) buffered bypass pedals on your board, you probably won't hear the difference from true bypass and you won't have to worry about loading of cables and jacks.

Most folks' ears can judge tone much better by listening than their eyes can by reading a spec sheet. Most booteek pedals have a lot more going for them sound-wise than the method of bypass but I'm not too keen on slavish adherance to the idea that "true bypass is inherently better". A quality buffer is transparent and eliminates loading issues. In theory, it seems to me that buffered bypass is better than true bypass. The thing is that it's a lot cheaper to slap a 3PDT switch in a pedal than to incorporate a quality buffer.

If you really want to be dogmatic about true bypass, get a loooper or some other external bypass pedal so you can at least bypass the tone sucking capacitance in the interconnect cables and jacks.

 

[ESP_EXECUTIONER]

Re: Stompbox or multi effect

Stomp boxes will give you better sound, however stomp boxes are a hell of a lot more expensive, especially when your adding the pedalboard and power supply(s).

I totally agree with what audiodog has said in this thread. I had a GT-3 Multi effects board for about 2 years because of the fact that it was cheap and it had a st!@load of effects. During that time I was not happy with any of the sounds at all that came out of it. Yeah, fair enough there is every parameter under the sun to adjust and tweek but for the tonal degredation you get using it just isn't worth it. The main reason for this decrease in quality in my mind is because stomp boxes are analog where multieffect processors are digital and every time the analog signal gets converted into digital and vise versa noise is introduced into your sound, therefore decreasing signal to noise ratio(bad). When I used to play loud using a lot of gain using the multi, feedback would scream out my amp and I didn't know why. Since I've been using the Boss Metal Zone I havent had any feedback problem and also havent really had that much desire for more effects. In fact, when I got this pedal my jaw dropped with the increase in quality of not only the distortion but because my multi didn't have true bypass the clean tone as well. F*&k, I was impressed with the difference, when I was using the multi it would really drain the tonal character of each my amp and guitar. Glad its not in my setup any more. There's my opinion, whether you play at home or gig.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Stompbox or multi effect

I was also considering Roland's synth products with the midi pickup. What do you guys think about them?

I play guitar synth all the time...the biggest drawback is that it is expensive to get into.

 

[SlyFoxx]

Re: Stompbox or multi effect

I run 6 stompers and a GT6. To cover all the ground I need to cover, I need both. The GT6 gives me:

1) basic amp tones (marshall/boogie/fender)
2) total volume control from song to song as well as solo boost
3) A tuner
4) The occasional "far-out" effect. (We were doing a Creed song and I needed to emulate a cello and the synth effect was helpful.)
5) ease of switching when a song requires numerous sounds

Stopboxes give me...

1) richer tones
2) immediate satisfaction
3) The ability to change sounds "on-the-fly" (read: the drummer kicked off the song too fast and now that syncopated delay needs changing.)


Don't get all hung up on written hype. Read/ask and learn yes. But after you do that use your ears. If it sounds good, it is good no matter what some dork with a pocket protector says.

When the joint is jumping and folks are drinking and dancing and spilling crap all over your stuff and the drummer just broke a snare head but you finish the song anyway and the crowd still loves it and you're fingers are flying and you're tired because it's been a long night but that's OK 'cause gigging is fun and you make money and you make people happy you suddenly realise that what kind of switch is in that pedal doesn't make a damn bit of difference as long as the thing works and the most important thing is to play the guitar correctly and what kind of rig you got comes in a distant second to being able to communicate through your instrument and reach people.

Damn that's a long sentence.

 

[Mr Wolf]

Re: Stompbox or multi effect

When the joint is jumping and folks are drinking and dancing and spilling crap all over your stuff and the drummer just broke a snare head but you finish the song anyway and the crowd still loves it and you're fingers are flying and you're tired because it's been a long night but that's OK 'cause gigging is fun and you make money and you make people happy you suddenly realise that what kind of switch is in that pedal doesn't make a damn bit of difference as long as the thing works and the most important thing is to play the guitar correctly and what kind of rig you got comes in a distant second to being able to communicate through your instrument and reach people.

Damn that's a long sentence.

Long sentence, my head is out of breath after reading it but i get ya, and i agree

My opinion, stompboxes are generally better than multi FX, but when dealing with alot of effects then theres a trade off with convenience. Since your talking about a lot of effects i recommend a POD with a 4-button footswitch or POD XT Live. Havent played a pod live but apart from whammy, theres little i cant do with it

 

[Ironjose]

Re: Stompbox or multi effect

Does buffered is a level up signal of the effect chain, with stomp boxes ???
it seems that SlyFoxx has a great rig and tone...
and the GT6 is a super multieffect, although i just sold it to upgrade it for a GT8, i´m still waiting !!!
JB

 

[audiodog]

Re: Stompbox or multi effect

Buffered is just the switching mechanisim that by passes the pedal when off. Apparently a buffered pedal may lower the volume a bit, however a true bypass switching system will actually do something else; it will make your tone "thinner". Which means there will be less detail in the frequencies, like bass, upper mid-range and treble response.

aleclee, I thank you! You saved me about $360 on true bypass switches, lol!

One more question aleclee, what pedals do you know of which are quality buffered pedals.

 

[aleclee]

Re: Stompbox or multi effect

One more question aleclee, what pedals do you know of which are quality buffered pedals.

That's a good question. I'd put most modded Boss pedals in that category. Some unmodded ones probably do, too. The HAO Rumble Mod is a great OD pedal. The top-shelf volume pedals (Goodrich & Hilton) are buffered. I'm not sure if the Blackbox stuff is buffered or not. Visual Sound pedals are buffered (and proud of it). Fuzzes are not normally buffered because the loading effect of the circuit is an integral part of the effect.

Personally, I prefer to divide pedals into tone sucking/non-tone sucking rather than buffered/true bypass. A tone sucker can still make it onto my pedalboard if it sounds good enough. You can always use a Loooper to bypass it or add a buffer to deal with excessive loading. The best way to evaluate pedals is by their tone, not their bypass technology.

In case you're curious, here's my stompbox pedalboard (though I'm currently using my Pod XT Live more these days). There's actually not a single true bypass pedal on it but it's quiet and it sounds good.

 

[Ironjose]

Re: Stompbox or multi effect

thanx audiodog for the explanation on buffered and bypass, so i´d guess that the multieffect arent true bypass, they are buffered types, right ??
nice piece of pedalboard you have there "aleclee" i guess that you change it for the XT for convienience i guess...
thanx

 

[audiodog]

Re: Stompbox or multi effect

Without doing research on this, I would say that a Multi-effects pedal board will not degrade your tone as much as multiple Stomp boxes.