Stoptail vs. Trapeze on 335 Clone

[Fresh_Start]

I've got a Heritage 535 and something's been bugging me for a while. To get the high & low E strings clear of the back edge of the bridge, I have to crank the stoptail WAY up - especially on the bass side. The tailpiece studs are barely in the bushings.

I tried doing the top-wrap approach which solved that problem but something wasn't right about the action/tone with that setup for me. The notches cut in the saddles were not done well, so that may make a smaller break angle more of a problem.

Basically the stoptail is just a little bit closer to the bridge than it should be. So it seems like my options are:

1) Top wrap and do something about the saddles (like replace them and cut the notches myself)
2) Try an ABR-1 bridge which is narrower than a Nashville by 1/10" (pretty sure this is a Nashville). Don't know if it would fit or if that difference in width is enough.
3) Try a trapeze tailpiece instead
4) Screw the tailpiece down so the strings break over the saddles and the back edge of the bridge (not cool, right?)

I'd sure appreciate your thoughts on the pros and cons of these alternatives, especially the trapeze. What kind of difference in tone would I get with a trapeze? Seems like some older 335s came with them...

On a side note, the most bizarre thing is that the tailpiece studs are NOT the same. IOW they are threaded differently and don't even look the same. How weird is that?

Chip

 

[blueman335]

Re: Stoptail vs. Trapeze on 335 Clone

I'm a 335 guy myself. I overwrap the strings on the stop bar, and the action is fine for me that way. I like to overwrap because otherwise there's a lot of forward pressure on the bridge, which can make it lean over time, especially if the posts go directly into wood. There's also less tension between the bridge & stopbar which makes it a little easier to bend strings. I think it's better tone-wise to overwrap than to raise the stop bar way up, as you keep the anchors in the wood so they can transmit string vibration better. The only time I don't like to overwrap is with gold hardware, as the stop bar usually tarnishes and you just can wipe it down very well; with chrome that doesn't happen. If you have chrome hardware, the best solution is looking like overwrap.

I like the vintage look of a trapeze tailpiece on a 335, but its stictly for comestic purposes (unlike a hollowbody which requires one). Hamer used to make an Echotone Custom that had that. Very pretty guitar. The drawback to coverting from a stop bar to a tailpiece is that you lose some tone & sustain, as a tailpiece isn't anchored nearly as well into the wood, and tailpieces have their own counter-vibrations going on which reduce sustain. The sound will be a little different, but you could compensate for some of that between the PU's & amp. Then of course there's the issue of the two empty anchor holes in the body. If these aren't a problem for you, go for it.

 

[ES350]

Re: Stoptail vs. Trapeze on 335 Clone

I'd just screw the stopbar down (topwrap or not) and not worry about it---I doubt you're going to have problems with the bridge studs on a Nashville style bridge.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Stoptail vs. Trapeze on 335 Clone

I put a Wilkinson roller bridge (very smooth, great for palm muting, and more adjustable) on mine and top-wrap the tailpiece.

Perfection.

 

[Fresh_Start]

Re: Stoptail vs. Trapeze on 335 Clone

i-6 that's a very interesting bridge. StewMac has one that looks like it that might be worth trying. The break angle over your bridge looks very slight.

Top wrapping sounds like an answer. I just have to either replace the saddles or the entire bridge. A Tone Pros ABR-1 seems like a good idea.

Blueman335 - thanks for the experienced advice on the trapeze tailpiece. That's what I guessed but wasn't sure.

Cheers,

Chip

 

[Bludave]

Re: Stoptail vs. Trapeze on 335 Clone

I have 2 semi hollows. A '85 335 dot & a new 359. Both have ABR bridges (not sure on my 335) and the strings don't touch the back of the bridge. However I have experimented with top wrap on my Les Paul which has a Nashville bridge & I did not like it. I felt the strings were looser & the guitar did not have as much sustain. So I changed the saddles in the bridge & cranked the stop bar all the way down to improve the break angle. The sustain is much better now, but this could also be affected by the graphite saddles on the guitar. With the stop all the way down I feel you get better sustain and a correct break angle. The strings can on some guitar touch the back of the bridge (on my LP Studio they do) but it doesn't seem to have any affect. The strings length is really determined from the saddle to the nut anyway so I don't think it really matters much.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Stoptail vs. Trapeze on 335 Clone

i-6 that's a very interesting bridge. StewMac has one that looks like it that might be worth trying. The break angle over your bridge looks very slight.

Top wrapping sounds like an answer. I just have to either replace the saddles or the entire bridge. A Tone Pros ABR-1 seems like a good idea.

I have experimented with top wrap on my Les Paul which has a Nashville bridge & I did not like it. I felt the strings were looser & the guitar did not have as much sustain. So I changed the saddles in the bridge & cranked the stop bar all the way down to improve the break angle. The sustain is much better now, but this could also be affected by the graphite saddles on the guitar. With the stop all the way down I feel you get better sustain and a correct break angle.

Interesting --- I have never considered sustain in this guitar (it's alive!) but it certainly makes sense to get more sustain out of a more dramatic breakover angle.

I have intentionally made my breakover angle as slight as possible, because I like the slinkiness of it, since I use 11's on this guitar, often with a wound 3rd. I actually make it a point to keep the stopbar as high as possible on this guitar.

If the sustain is great on your guitar intrinsically, I think the slight breakover could solve your problem. If you're looking for more sustain, Bludave's got the ticket.

BTW, here is the bridge I put on mine --- it's superlatively well made, very heavy, solid, and no rattles, by design. I have no idea why it's so affordable.

Wilkinson Brass Roller Bridge - Locking Studs

Nice and BRAND NEW- Wilkinson has taken the classic Schaller archtop bridge, given it a classically clever rethink, and priced them to move!

A beautifully machined brass body contains six jewel-like roller saddle units. Even smarter is the way this bridge mounts- We supply it with a pair of import size sleeves with ABR-1 sized adapter bushings. Very cool and retains a clean look. We also stock the classic ABR-1 screw-in posts and post 1983 USA Gibson Nashville posts - both of which will work with this bridge.

This bridge works very well. The FOUR grub screws not only allow you to accurately dial in perfect intonation, but they actually LOCK THE BRIDGE to the studs- tonepros anyone??

 

[Fresh_Start]

Re: Stoptail vs. Trapeze on 335 Clone

Immortal Six - that looks GREAT!

No problem locking the stoptail down on the body without extra breakpoint, a solid connection like TonePros, and cheap. What's not to like?

Thanks a bunch,

Chip

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Stoptail vs. Trapeze on 335 Clone

Immortal Six - that looks GREAT!

No problem locking the stoptail down on the body without extra breakpoint, a solid connection like TonePros, and cheap. What's not to like?

Thanks a bunch,

Chip

Yeah man, I have been really happy with it. I play this guitar a lot more now.

I was going to trade my 335 before I added it, and then I decided to get a better bridge and new pickups, and now it's my number 1. I never knew how big a difference a bridge could make in a guitar until my Squier '51 project, and now it's the first thing I look at for playability changes. Good luck with your upgrade!

-Hunter