Strat Trem Block Upgrade

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

Speaking from personal experience, the difference is even moreso in strat guitars than floyds. If I had left my strat alone at night and someone snuck in an swapped my old block for the one I have now I would wonder what the hell happened to it. From pot metal to steel, there was more of everything, but the extra bass, resonance and midrange was the most apparent change, though there was a distinct increase in overtones and harmonics. There were extra highs but they seemed less apparent. Between just screwing it down hard tail and letting it float which I have also done frequently pre and post block change, I noticed very little to no tone differences between them. When it is BLOCKED with a piece of wood or something I hear more of a difference but just screwing it down so it is pulling against the body doesn't do much to change the sound. The video in my opinion and experience underplays it.

 

[DreX]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

Between just screwing it down hard tail an letting it float which I have also done frequently pre and post block change, I noticed no tone differences between them. When it is BLOCKED with a piece of wood or something I hear more of a difference but just screwing it down so it is pulling against the body doesn't do much to change the sound.

Regarding float versus flush, the difference is supposedly more obvious if you have a super cheap 1oz trem with almost no mass to it versus a 10oz steel block, so when talking about pot metal versus steel or brass, form factor is important. A full size zinc block should be between 8 and 9 oz. not far from steel in terms of density.

Regarding a flush trem versus a blocked off trem; I notice that my flush strat with three strings sustains better if I pull up on the bar, simulating five springs worth of downward pressure, and it does get a lot louder. I'g gonna have to switch out to five springs. I only use the whammy once in a blue moon anyway, enough to keep it working in general.

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

Thanks for the help everyone. hamerfan, did you Squier have the narrow screw spacing, and if so did you have to plug the holes and redrill?

No need to redrill, the spacing is from 54 to 57 mm.

Dimensions see here

http://en.audiofanzine.com/guitar-v...-tremolo/medias/pictures/a.play,m.664550.html

 

[greekdude]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

i liked the super-vee bladerunner , but its not like its gonna make a bad guitar sing.
In my experience playing with most kinds of strat tremolos, is that if the wood sings sooner or later this will come to the surface with one way or another, even with medium priced tremolo bridges, floating or not. If the wood does not sing, any investments in extra hardware will be just wasted money.

 

[ganzosrevenge]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

I can understand how there would be a difference in a floating setup but wondered if anyone had tried it in a non-floating tremolo. Supposedly more mass will give more sustain and the choice of metal can color the tone. But since I have it franked down I should have a lot of mass already there I would think. Thanks for the reply.

I have a Callaham in a non-floating (5 springs, decked, claw clamped) setup. When I tried that with the stock American Deluxe block in my 2007 Mahogany HSS, I cracked the block; doing the same to the callaham block, it not only survived, but it gave my strat a snap to it that doesn't "feel like mahogany". That is, it's definitely got a more "round" bottom-end than a typical alder / ash strat, but it has a "focused tone" to it. There's no delay in attack, and the decay is more gradual than with a normal block. As for quality of block, there's always a difference in quality between a "pressed from bits" block, and a block where a single piece of steel is taken and then shaped into the block. The latter is much more time-consuming, labor-intensive, etc., but typically speaking, results in a more consistent - if heavier - block.

Would I expect it to carry over in "youtube"? perhaps. Would I expect it to carry over in actual playing? Yes... and it will make your guitar a LOT less forgiving of "tone flubs".

 

[jimijames]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

i liked the super-vee bladerunner , but its not like its gonna make a bad guitar sing.
In my experience playing with most kinds of strat tremolos, is that if the wood sings sooner or later this will come to the surface with one way or another, even with medium priced tremolo bridges, floating or not. If the wood does not sing, any investments in extra hardware will be just wasted money.

Well my experience is that the body wood gives you the basic sound of the guitar, and the callaham bridge just gives you more of it - everything is louder. For example, my jazzmaster with a GFS trem block is louder acoustically than my strat, but that's because (1) it is physically much larger, (2) it has about .200" more neck, (3) I don't know, it just resonates more. It would probably be even louder with the callaham bridge but it sounds good enough as is so I don't mess with it too much.

 

[ganzosrevenge]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

Well my experience is that the body wood gives you the basic sound of the guitar, and the callaham bridge just gives you more of it - everything is louder. For example, my jazzmaster with a GFS trem block is louder acoustically than my strat, but that's because (1) it is physically much larger, (2) it has about .200" more neck, (3) I don't know, it just resonates more. It would probably be even louder with the callaham bridge but it sounds good enough as is so I don't mess with it too much.

Does callaham even make stuff for the jazzmaster?!?

 

[jimijames]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

Does callaham even make stuff for the jazzmaster?!?

Whoops, my bad - my jazzmaster has a strat tremolo - I bought the body from warmoth routed like that. So callaham makes stuff for my jazzmaster, but not jazzmaster style tremolos.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

I've spent close to 1000.00 on Steel and Brass trems for all my 15+ guitars, and aluminum on one one two. Zinc /pot metal is not on any of my seriously good guitars. The fact that some people even make a legitimate attempt at a comparison between zinc and steel or brass ( also titanium) is laughable at best.
Zinc is inferior. There is no way on earth where it is anything BUT inferior. Ditch it. Ditch it as soon as you can, and throw it in the trash can.

 

[DreX]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

I've spent close to 1000.00 on Steel and Brass trems for all my 15+ guitars, and aluminum on one one two. Zinc /pot metal is not on any of my seriously good guitars. The fact that some people even make a legitimate attempt at a comparison between zinc and steel or brass ( also titanium) is laughable at best.
Zinc is inferior. There is no way on earth where it is anything BUT inferior. Ditch it. Ditch it as soon as you can, and throw it in the trash can.

The density of steel is between 7.75 and 8.05 g/cm3. Brass is between 8.4 and 8.73, and brass contains some zinc. The density of zinc by itself is 7.140 g/cm3, which is less dense, but not by much. Certainly not a degree of difference that justifies "Ditch it as soon as you can". That seems a little over the top.

I'll go so far as to say I don't think there is an difference between full sized zinc and full sized steel that is audible to the human ear. You're talking about a part of the guitar that only makes up a fraction of influence on the overall sound, and then you're considering materials that only differ from one another by a fraction. Maybe a dog can hear the difference. If the zinc block is half sized, shaped like a door wedge, as is often the case, that's another matter. If the block is little more than a string holder, that's another matter.

I have five steel block Strats (three Callaham, two Fender), a couple with full sized pot metal blocks, and several more with half sized pot metal block, and none with the really tiny ones. I play them all on a regular basis and am well aware of the difference. Overall I prefer the zinc half sized blocks, because to my ear, having a bit less mass at the bridge makes the Strat sound more like my hard tailed Teles, which go straight from their ash tray bridge plate into wood. It's a warmer, more mid rich, resonant wood sort of tone. The Strats with the steel blocks have a more stinging, metallic attack and decay, which is what you'd expect. Imagine if the whole guitar were made out of steel, well, a steel block is a little slice of that.

I honestly don't think steel blocks sounds better, it sounds more metallic, and I only think people prefer it because they want to like it. It's an aftermarket "upgrade", you have to pay more more it, it's vintage spec, and some people are used to the particular sound. Once you get past a certain point, things start to sound better or worse only through the power of suggestion.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

The weight, not the point it is, Drex.

 

[DreX]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

The fact that I've made note of the weight doesn't mean I believe it's the entirety of the difference, but it's not an unsubstantial factor, either. Like I said, I have many examples of each and play them all constantly. The pickups in the guitars impart a lot more EQ differences and/or sustain than the a zic to steel swap out, so when I see people make overly bold claims about the difference, I'm fairly certain they're hearing what they want to hear and not being as objective as they could be.

 

[DreX]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

I have a Callaham in a non-floating (5 springs, decked, claw clamped) setup. When I tried that with the stock American Deluxe block in my 2007 Mahogany HSS, I cracked the block; doing the same to the callaham block, it not only survived, but it gave my strat a snap to it that doesn't "feel like mahogany"

Five springs cracked the block? That's crazy. They put five spring slots in those blocks, so it's hard to imagine they wouldn't be designed to withstand five springs.

I'm putting five springs in all my Strats because I did notice a difference with five springs worth of tension versus just three. At first I just pulled back on the whammy arm and noticed the guitar became suddenly louder. Of course the trem is a lot harder to use, but I don't use it often anyway, mostly at the end of a song or for some feedback effects. I use it enough that I'm not willing to block them off, and I like how Strats look with the arm in place.

As for quality of block, there's always a difference in quality between a "pressed from bits" block, and a block where a single piece of steel is taken and then shaped into the block. The latter is much more time-consuming, labor-intensive, etc., but typically speaking, results in a more consistent - if heavier - block.

If you're talking about pressed powdered steel versus "cold rolled", they weighed about the same when I compared them.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

Well my experience is that the body wood gives you the basic sound of the guitar, and the callaham bridge just gives you more of it - everything is louder. For example, my jazzmaster with a GFS trem block is louder acoustically than my strat, but that's because (1) it is physically much larger, (2) it has about .200" more neck, (3) I don't know, it just resonates more. It would probably be even louder with the callaham bridge but it sounds good enough as is so I don't mess with it too much.

i don't know, my (now sold) scalloped partscaster strat used to be really loud unplugged, but its bass response and sustain sucked. The notes died that early that i really hated this. Many people claim that resonance is reversely proportional with sustain.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

I'm saying again that although I can hear the difference between a Callaham and a MIJ with non-magnetic block I could not hear the difference between the same Callaham and a 1994 AVRI which also isn't magnetic - but substantially lighter than the Callaham.

Apparently Fender isn't full of complete morons. Although of course modern AVRIs use a steel block. I didn't drive that one against the Callaham yet.

 

[ganzosrevenge]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

Five springs cracked the block? That's crazy. They put five spring slots in those blocks, so it's hard to imagine they wouldn't be designed to withstand five springs.

I'm putting five springs in all my Strats because I did notice a difference with five springs worth of tension versus just three. At first I just pulled back on the whammy arm and noticed the guitar became suddenly louder. Of course the trem is a lot harder to use, but I don't use it often anyway, mostly at the end of a song or for some feedback effects. I use it enough that I'm not willing to block them off, and I like how Strats look with the arm in place.



If you're talking about pressed powdered steel versus "cold rolled", they weighed about the same when I compared them.

Yup, split the block right along the long way (ie: filet the block). It's not the "weight" of the block, but how it is composed. A solid piece of material that is not built out of "compressed" materials is less likely to have imperfections in it (ie: air bubbles, dirt, etc.,) on the basis that whatever it was milled from, probably came from some sort of foundry or factory where the QC ensures that the impurities are minimized. I work in the scrap metal business, and I have seen more "giant single blocks" of aluminum, steel, titanium, etc., and I have also seen 'compressed" blocks. A well-sorted block of aluminum has a different pitch when it is tapped, than a block made from aluminum sand / aluminum turnings. One goes "ding!" one sounds like a drum. In that regard, the weight isn't the issue, but it is the way the block is composed. If you want to see this for yourself, throw a pressed block of aluminum into a drum, it goes *wump!*. if you throw a block of the same mass, under the same conditiosn, you get harmonics that ring. In that regard, I extrapolate this to the callaham v. stock comparison and have the result that I get.

Jason

 

[LukeW]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

Well, I ordered a brass block and Graph-tech saddles today. They should be in in a few weeks. I'll try and remember to do a before and after recording and post it.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

Well, I ordered a brass block and Graph-tech saddles today. They should be in in a few weeks. I'll try and remember to do a before and after recording and post it.

Which Block? GFS uses a Brass alloy, and not solid billet bell grade brass. The GFS is good though, and a definite improvement from the pot metal.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

Well, I ordered a brass block and Graph-tech saddles today. They should be in in a few weeks. I'll try and remember to do a before and after recording and post it.

Nice. Do you plan on 3 steps or block and saddles at the same time? I think the saddles are trivial to change without major work so maybe 3?

 

[DreX]

Re: Strat Trem Block Upgrade

Well, I ordered a brass block and Graph-tech saddles today. They should be in in a few weeks. I'll try and remember to do a before and after recording and post it.

Be sure to note how much float there is before and after, if you're going for an objective comparison. The plate might look decked, but depending on the amount of pressure, it can sound way different. I switched from three to five springs and the sustain improved a lot, and a lot more body resonance comes through. You can tell how much play or pressure in on the rear of the plate by just pulling back on the trem arm and listening for the difference. The amount of float might change when you change the block, so you'd have to tighten a loosen the trem claw to get it back to where it was with the old block.