Strat Tremolos

[master of tacos]

From my understanding, the 2-point trem is better for whammy abuse (which is why Jeff Beck uses it), but everyone keeps saying that the 6-screw vintage trems have better tone.

My question...is simply why? What is it about the differences in design on the two trems that leads to different tone? Do flat saddles really lack that much tone over the bent saddles on vintage strats? Or is it that the vintage trems have bigger tremolo blocks? Or an even more important question...is the difference in tone really that noticeable at all?

Like I said, Jeff Beck uses the 2-point with the flat saddles, and he has some of the best tone I have ever heard.

 

[Uk Ant]

Re: Strat Tremolos

Ah, that's simple. Traditional trems actually have direct contact between the trem plate and the guitar body, thus better tone.
Well, that's the theory anyway. In the real world tone is a subjective thing.
Paul Gilbert uses a fixed bridge because it gives him a 'Less complex tone' which I think says quite allot about what good tone is, and also about Mr Gilbert.

 

[CaughtLikeFire]

Re: Strat Tremolos

Or an even more important question...is the difference in tone really that noticeable at all?

if you already have a body drilled for a 2-point or are looking into buying a guitar that has everything you want except a vintage bridge, I'd say don't worry about the differences. With Callaham saddles and heavy block, my American Std trem wasn't short on sustain. I ended up blocking the trem on that particular guitar because I didn't use it much, which gave me a little more sustain, but the block and saddles actually made the biggest difference.

you had the thread on the VSVG right? it doesn't really have a much shorter range of motion than a Fender 2-point. if you need something for trem acrobatics, get a well-made Floyd. Otherwise get the Wilkinson.

 

[Petrovsk Mizinski]

Re: Strat Tremolos

I can safely say the idea that 6 screw trems "sound" better is totally garbage. It's just one of those vintage tone snob ideas and some get that obsessed with THEIR tone they forget other players have different needs and what sounds good to them isn't necessarily going to translate to good to others.
Case in point, my favorite lead tone of all time is Joe Satriani's tone on the Live at San Francisco performance, which is done with guitars using 2 point locking trems.
It might not sound the "same" as a 6 screw trem, but I couldn't care less, because it sounds GOOD to me, which is far more important to me than whether it sounds like a 6 screw trem or not.
I had a Brian Moore Guitars I12000 series with 2 point trem, and the guitar sounded absolutely amazing and my friends that played guitar loved the tone too.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Strat Tremolos

i'm a huge fan of the American Standard bridge... i own a few.. 4 i think.. i've used them on Parts strats and i have an American Standard guitar... It is a great feeling trem that works very smooth and has a good modern tone about it... The guitars i have these trems on sound amazing!!!!. for any real trem use i like it much better then a 6 screw trem..

i own many MIM Standards with the cheaper 6 screw trems and i prefer the American Standard trem over them for sure...

My 66 Custom Shop strat has the true vintage style trem... wide spacing and nice and heavy... it's a great trem! i have it set flush... it is a true vintage strat feel all around... but the 2-post designs function better in my mind for trem work..

i have a box with a few Gotoh vintage trems in it that i took off other guitars to put 2-post trems on...

 

[dr. ad]

Re: Strat Tremolos

if there's a noticeable difference, it may be apparent when going from the guitar straight into the amp with the shortest cable possible etc; not trying to contradict you man but satch might not be the best example

 

[cvansickle]

Re: Strat Tremolos

The saddles have more impact on the tone than the screws holding the bridge to the body do. Some people prefer the tone from the stamped saddles to the more modern cast ones. Fender's new American Strats use the two-screw bridge, but with stamped saddles.

 

[dr. ad]

Re: Strat Tremolos

The saddles have more impact on the tone than the screws holding the bridge to the body do. Some people prefer the tone from the stamped saddles to the more modern cast ones. Fender's new American Strats use the two-screw bridge, but with stamped saddles.

which do you prefer? and is it a feel thing or a tone thing?

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Re: Strat Tremolos

Screw down a two point trem to the body, add five springs and it's highly doubtful that it'll sound different to a six screw trem set up the same way. Floating vs. resting against the body is going to have some effect on tone and sustain. Granted, when you play at gig levels, these things matter less!

In any case, Jeff Beck's technique necessities probably override the need for an extra few percent of woodiness and sustain; I doubt he sweats in his sleep over it. Also, I'm sure there's a thread somewhere about how the LSR roller nut is a black hole for tone. All in all, it says something about how much amateur guitarists blow things out of proportion in their belief that having "good" gear (whatever that's supposed to mean, more like constructing a discursive high horse from which they can pontificate) is going to make them better players.

Something that I've heard done to improve tuning stability on a six screw is loosening the middle four screws and adjusting the two outer ones to taste – lessens the friction because less screws are taking the full load.

 

[master of tacos]

Re: Strat Tremolos

if you already have a body drilled for a 2-point or are looking into buying a guitar that has everything you want except a vintage bridge, I'd say don't worry about the differences. With Callaham saddles and heavy block, my American Std trem wasn't short on sustain. I ended up blocking the trem on that particular guitar because I didn't use it much, which gave me a little more sustain, but the block and saddles actually made the biggest difference.

you had the thread on the VSVG right? it doesn't really have a much shorter range of motion than a Fender 2-point. if you need something for trem acrobatics, get a well-made Floyd. Otherwise get the Wilkinson.

What is it about the design of the bent saddles that makes them "sound better" than the flat saddles?

 

[Atomic Chameleon]

Re: Strat Tremolos

Ah, that's simple. Traditional trems actually have direct contact between the trem plate and the guitar body, thus better tone.

6-screw, 2-point, and Floyds can all be set up to be resting on the body. I most often see it called "flush-mount."

 

[CaughtLikeFire]

Re: Strat Tremolos

What is it about the design of the bent saddles that makes them "sound better" than the flat saddles?

the composition of the metal and the design have an effect. high quality saddles like the Callaham don't dampen the higher frequencies as much as the cheaper saddles that tend to have a higher zinc content. they are also shaped/cut to reduce string binding and maximize string vibration transfer.

everything affects the tone of the guitar, it's just that some components play a bigger role than others. are you building a guitar from parts? upgrading an existing guitar? are you looking at buying a vintage vs. modern type Strat? that info would be helpful.

I rarely use a lot of gain when I play and I don't use effects so the unplugged tone of the guitar is extremely important to me. for some players, more subtle changes like saddles won't make much difference at all.

 

[cvansickle]

Re: Strat Tremolos

which do you prefer? and is it a feel thing or a tone thing?

I prefer stamped, definitely tone. It's part of what makes a Strat a Strat.

 

[master of tacos]

Re: Strat Tremolos

the composition of the metal and the design have an effect. high quality saddles like the Callaham don't dampen the higher frequencies as much as the cheaper saddles that tend to have a higher zinc content. they are also shaped/cut to reduce string binding and maximize string vibration transfer.

everything affects the tone of the guitar, it's just that some components play a bigger role than others. are you building a guitar from parts? upgrading an existing guitar? are you looking at buying a vintage vs. modern type Strat? that info would be helpful.

I rarely use a lot of gain when I play and I don't use effects so the unplugged tone of the guitar is extremely important to me. for some players, more subtle changes like saddles won't make much difference at all.

im just curious to see an explanation behind the hype of vintage strat trems.

my guitar teacher's main guitar is a strat, which not only has great tone, but he can use the bar like a floyd (granted not the same range, but pretty **** close). He uses an american standard trem, graphtech saddles, a graphite nut, and locking tuners. so it can be done.

do the flat saddles help keep the guitar in better tune than the bent saddles do when the tremolo bar is used?

 

[CaughtLikeFire]

Re: Strat Tremolos

do the flat saddles help keep the guitar in better tune than the bent saddles do when the tremolo bar is used?

not in my experience. the graphite parts your teacher uses can help with returning to pitch though. I don't like what they do to the tone, but they do prevent binding.