Strat Truss Rod nut question

C

cato

New member
I'm sure this is not a smart question but here goes.
Say you got a bullet truss nut. You're replacing it. You take it off. You thread on the new nut. It's gets tight. You tighten it more with your key. The neck back bows and relief drops. Now you turn it counter-clockwise and relief increases. Makes sense.
OK. How, when you turned it counterclockwise, did the nut not just start backing off the truss rod? I mean you just threaded it clockwise 'ON' the rod, so how come when I turn it counterclockwise it turned the truss rod instead of just coming 'OFF' the truss rod?
I understand the bullet turning the truss rod in the clockwise direction, cause after it bottoms out, it has to turn the rod. But when turning it counter-clockwise, without a detent in place fixing the nut to the truss rod, how does it not just start coming off the truss rod?
I'm missing something obvious, right?
 
Re: Strat Truss Rod nut question

Its a one-way rod. So yes screwing the nut off will happen if you go way too far.

Gibson rod are exactly the same. Its simply a hex nut on a thread.
 
Re: Strat Truss Rod nut question

Thanks alex. But when turning the nut CCW, what makes it go from turning the truss rod to suddenly unscrewing FROM the truss rod? Without a detent pinning the nut to the rod, locking them together as one, how does turning the nut CCW not just immediately make it spin on the rod threads?
 
Re: Strat Truss Rod nut question

Never thought about it, realize I don't know the answer!


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Re: Strat Truss Rod nut question

You shouldn't be turning the rod. If you unscrew the nut (CCW), does the nut eventually come off?
 
Re: Strat Truss Rod nut question

Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding you, but are you saying that after tightening the turss rod, when you try to loosen the tighetning nut, the whole rod starts to spin? Or are you asking WHY that DOESN'T happen?
 
Re: Strat Truss Rod nut question

GuitarDoc said:
You shouldn't be turning the rod. If you unscrew the nut (CCW), does the nut eventually come off?
Click to expand...
Yes the nut does come off ccw.
I thought turning the nut turns the rod. If I'm not making sense I'm sure it's because I have a misconception regarding how the system works. I'm assuming that since the nut screws onto the threads of the truss rod, turning the nut turns the rod.
I'm wrong aren't i?
 
Re: Strat Truss Rod nut question

Coma said:
Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding you, but are you saying that after tightening the turss rod, when you try to loosen the tighetning nut, the whole rod starts to spin? Or are you asking WHY that DOESN'T happen?
Click to expand...
Closer to the latter.
By all your replies, I'm fairly certain have a misconception of how the truss rod works. I assumed turning the nut turns the truss rod as well: turning the nut cw turns the rod cw which bends the neck backwards, and turning the nut ccw turns the rod ccw causing it to bend the neck the other way. But I'm gathering that's wrong. I take it the rod itself doesn't turn?
 
Re: Strat Truss Rod nut question

If so, would somebody be kind enough to explain how the nut interacts with the truss rod and thus how the turning the nut one way or the other causes the truss rod to do whatever it does and how that makes the neck bend one way or the other?
It's not a biflex of course; just a standard system.
I apologize for such a lack of fundamental knowledge. I have searched high and low online for a mechanical schematic or illustration of the interrelationship of the nut and rod, their interaction with each other, which parts move doing exactly what, but I can only find the basic function of the rod.
It's like the steering in the car: I'd know turning the wheel one way or the other makes the car go one way or the other; but I'd want to know how the steering column connects to the front axle what what interactions with which parts and linkages mechanically makes the car go one way or the other.
Thanks
Cato
 
Re: Strat Truss Rod nut question

http://www.tdpri.com/threads/truss-rods-how-they-work-including-the-bi-flex.95999/

This is the closest thing I've gotten to an explanation of how the system works mechanically, and it has a link to a schematic on Photobucket, but it's a biflex. and the description of the standard system isn't very clear, but it led me to believe that the nut is turning the truss rod. It's at the very top of the page.
 
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Re: Strat Truss Rod nut question

You have a rod with a fixed anchor in one end and a nut on the other end of it.
The way that the rod sits in the neck is in a curved channel in the wood. As you tighten the rod you are pulling the whole thing tighter, the rod is trying to get shorter/straighter so therefore pulls the neck into a curve....or resists a curve in the opposite direction.

As you loosen the nut this effect gets less and less until it reaches a point just before the nut gets to being loose where the TR has no tension on the wood at all. Then if you loosen the nut further, it spins fully loose and you have the same effect but with a loose nut.

If you don't need the rod to be making an upbow then you simply get the nut to being just snug as described above.
 
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Re: Strat Truss Rod nut question

cato said:
Yes the nut does come off ccw.
I thought turning the nut turns the rod. If I'm not making sense I'm sure it's because I have a misconception regarding how the system works. I'm assuming that since the nut screws onto the threads of the truss rod, turning the nut turns the rod.
I'm wrong aren't i?
Click to expand...

Yes, you are wrong. The nut should not be turning the rod. It tightens the rod in such a way as to cause the neck to bow backwards.
 
Re: Strat Truss Rod nut question

cato said:
http://www.tdpri.com/threads/truss-rods-how-they-work-including-the-bi-flex.95999/

This is the closest thing I've gotten to an explanation of how the system works mechanically, and it has a link to a schematic on Photobucket, but it's a biflex. and the description of the standard system isn't very clear, but it led me to believe that the nut is turning the truss rod. It's at the very top of the page.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine what you don't understand from that link you provided, or what more you want. It is pretty explanatory. When you turn the nut cw, it tightens/shortens the curved rod which puts upward pressure on the middle of the neck tending to bend it backwards. When you turn the nut ccw, it releases that tension and allows the neck to be bent forward creating more relief between the fretboard and the strings.
 
Re: Strat Truss Rod nut question

AlexR said:
You have a rod with a fixed anchor in one end and a nut on the other end of it.
The way that the rod sits in the neck is in a curved channel in the wood. As you tighten the rod you are pulling the whole thing tighter, the rod is trying to get shorter/straighter so therefore pulls the neck into a curve....or resists a curve in the opposite direction.

As you loosen the nut this effect gets less and less until it reaches a point just before the nut gets to being loose where the TR has no tension on the wood at all. Then if you loosen the nut further, it spins fully loose and you have the same effect but with a loose nut.

If you don't need the rod to be making an upbow then you simply get the nut to being just snug as described above.
Click to expand...

Thanks Alex. That for some reason helped me visualize the interaction between the parts such that it clicked and I got it.
Much appreciated!
 
Re: Strat Truss Rod nut question

GuitarDoc said:
I can't imagine what you don't understand from that link you provided, or what more you want. It is pretty explanatory. When you turn the nut cw, it tightens/shortens the curved rod which puts upward pressure on the middle of the neck tending to bend it backwards. When you turn the nut ccw, it releases that tension and allows the neck to be bent forward creating more relief between the fretboard and the strings.
Click to expand...

I couldn't tell you. Not having seen a truss rod manipulated/demo'd outside the neck, as simple as it is, it was thus, to me, too abstract to visualize. Coincidentally, moments ago, I found a YouTube vid of a guy doing precisely that - demo'ing a standard and biflex system - and of course it was a no brainer once I saw it.
 
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