Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

[Butch Snyder]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

Someone please explain to me, and perhaps the rest of the forum, why there's apparently some absolute about shred requiring paper thin necks with flat radii.

It's clear to me that a guitar doesn't play itself, and the guitar's ability to cover a certainly style is dependent more on the player's ability. I can't shred, but I've never been so arrogant or overconfident in myself to blame that on my gear. That's nothing short of foolish.

Here's my take Mike...

Like I said earlier, you use what you have and make it work. I think that designers looked at what would make shredding easier on a Strat; based on the fact that most players (not all) were using Strats to play in that way. IMO, that's where the neck and fretboard mods came in. Allan Holdsworth used a 70's Strat when playing with U.K. and Bruford. He went to a Charvel after that.

 

[MikeS]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

Right, bros, I understand that for most that a flatter radius and a thinner neck with low action certainly best facilitates fretboard acrobatics. I'm in agreement with you in that regard. What I don't understand is why it's sometimes seen as an absolute (not necessarily by the two of you). Ultimately I would hope a player selects a guitar based on what's comfortable, not on what convention says he or she should play. For instance, I've got large hands, and while I prefer a slightly flatter than stock strat radius, I abhor wafer thin necks.

Hmm, all that when I could have simply said I more or less agree with you.

 

[Butch Snyder]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

I think it's because a lot of shredders prefer the flatter, thinner, wider necks. Some don't. Apparently most do, hence the designs...

 

[uOpt]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

Flat fretboard has to be, otherwise low action will not mix with bending.

Personally I think that a moderate V neck is better for fast play as the thumb rests nicely, but lower than just on top of the neck. Plus a moderate V also has thickness so that your hands don't tire.

I think I'm gonna ebay a Malmsteen or Blackmore Strat now

 

[Metalblaze]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

I think when you can shred you can shred at what you've learned on. Is it a Strat? a LP? a superstrat? an explorer? a v? a mandolin? It's what your fingers are used to sit on.

However the conversation has widened the topic of the thread so, I'll post in that spirit too.

I think tone is a subjective thing so I wouldn't say superstrats have worse tone than other guitars. It's all about the user and the adjustment he/she makes.

I like the tone of many different guitars.

like from LPs like Zakk Wylde, Billy Gobbons...etc
from Strats: Eric Clapton, Eric Johnson, Chris Impellitteri, Malmsteen (his lead tone, not so much his rhythm one).
from Explorers and the like: early James Hetfield has awesome metal tone, Mr Durrell
and of course from superstrats: EVH, Kee Marcello (the hell of a tone), Rammstein, George Lynch, Bill Leverty (from Firehouse).Edit: also just heard Warrant's cherry pie. Very gutsy tone.

 

[millsart]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

Theres never absolutes but theres generally accepted ideas of what works most of the time and what doesnt.

If you've got a family of 5 do you buy a 2 seat Miata sports car or do you get a mini van with three rows of seats ?

Theres no rule that says you have 5 kids so you must buy a minivan, and plenty of people hate minivans, but theres no denying that for a great number of people, they really do make sense and work.

You could learn to shred on any guitar, heck I've seen guys doing crazy stuff on an acoustic with 13's for crying out loud, anything is possible. Still though, if your going to suggest a guitar for shred, the usual suspects come to mind.

Same with amps, if someone says they want a good ultra high gain metal amp what would be a smart suggestion ? Engl perhaps right ?

Could we argue then that Fenders or Vox is "just fine for metal" ? Certainly would could, we could say theres no rule that says you only can use an Engl and that people who do are arrogant etc. Exact parallel to this thread isn't it ?

To each his own of course but if I was into shredding and I only owned a standard or vintage strat I for one would sure be looking into some other options to make life easier and help my playing progress faster.

I've owned a ton of Jacksons in years past and I can say without a doubt, that at least for me, they were MUCH better guitars for playing quick shredding runs, tapping etc.

 

[theboatcandream]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

I use a fender amp for metal sometimes. Of course, the signal is split so all the bass and mid frequencies go to a wall of 15" speakers.

 

[Metalblaze]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

Theres never absolutes but theres generally accepted ideas of what works most of the time and what doesnt.

If you've got a family of 5 do you buy a 2 seat Miata sports car or do you get a mini van with three rows of seats ?

Theres no rule that says you have 5 kids so you must buy a minivan, and plenty of people hate minivans, but theres no denying that for a great number of people, they really do make sense and work.

You could learn to shred on any guitar, heck I've seen guys doing crazy stuff on an acoustic with 13's for crying out loud, anything is possible. Still though, if your going to suggest a guitar for shred, the usual suspects come to mind.

Same with amps, if someone says they want a good ultra high gain metal amp what would be a smart suggestion ? Engl perhaps right ?

Could we argue then that Fenders or Vox is "just fine for metal" ? Certainly would could, we could say theres no rule that says you only can use an Engl and that people who do are arrogant etc. Exact parallel to this thread isn't it ?

To each his own of course but if I was into shredding and I only owned a standard or vintage strat I for one would sure be looking into some other options to make life easier and help my playing progress faster.

I've owned a ton of Jacksons in years past and I can say without a doubt, that at least for me, they were MUCH better guitars for playing quick shredding runs, tapping etc.

Certainly agreed. You can shred on quite many guitars but you can most easily shred on shred guitars-amps etc.

 

[Butch Snyder]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

I think when you can shred you can shred at what you've learned on. Is it a Strat? a LP? a superstrat? an explorer? a v? a mandolin? It's what your fingers are used to sit on.

Right On....:beerchug:

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

I think when you can shred you can shred at what you've learned on. Is it a Strat? a LP? a superstrat? an explorer? a v? a mandolin? It's what your fingers are used to sit on.

However the conversation has widened the topic of the thread so, I'll post in that spirit too.

I think tone is a subjective thing so I wouldn't say superstrats have worse tone than other guitars. It's all about the user and the adjustment he/she makes.

I like the tone of many different guitars.

like from LPs like Zakk Wylde, Billy Gobbons...etc
from Strats: Eric Clapton, Eric Johnson, Chris Impellitteri, Malmsteen (his lead tone, not so much his rhythm one).
from Explorers and the like: early James Hetfield has awesome metal tone, Mr Durrell
and of course from superstrats: EVH, Kee Marcello (the hell of a tone), Rammstein, George Lynch, Bill Leverty (from Firehouse).Edit: also just heard Warrant's cherry pie. Very gutsy tone.

Hmmm. I've seen more than one occasion where a kid walks into a studio with a jackson or similar and ends up recording almost everything (particularly main rhythm tracks) on LPs, strats, SGs and similar. in fact, I wouldn't hesitate to suggest that a lot of the recorded stuff you list under 'superstrats' is probably not a superstrat at all. Everything without wang bar on the first VH album is an ibanez destroyer, for example, and Lynch has a couple of nice old Les Pauls that have done a lot of work.

Now I've played some ok sounding superstrats in my time, but the fundamental problem with most of them is that they are designed in a way that removes wood from critical areas: under the bridge, at the neck joint and on the neck itself. Not a great idea if you're looking for a warm, balanced, resonant sounding guitar.

 

[Pierre]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

It's not because it's fine for Malmsteem or whoever the French else that it's fine for me or you! I can't stand that whole thing in reviews 'if it's good enough for Hendrix...'

EVERYBODY is different! I can shred equally well on most guitars, but I prefer some others. Some people are picky with their guitars. I'm not as picky as some but I do prefer, say, a 10'' radius over a 16'' one. I do prefer a slightly fatter neck as opposed to a wizard neck. So what?

Anyway... I think it's possible to shred on pretty much any guitar. Mostly it depends on your definition of shred. Either way, I can play equally fast on most guitars, though sometimes some adjustement time is needed. I'm also used to 11s as opposed to 09s so it's not as much a problem as for some other people who are used to paper thin necks and uber thin strings which I can't get too comfy with.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

What I don't understand is why it's sometimes seen as an absolute....

Most people are either unwilling or (much less frequently) unable to adapt to anything different than what they typically use. I have a hard time with people who raise too big of a fuss about playing whatever guitar is handed to them (within reason).

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

I think it's all the player. You either rip, or you do not rip.
I remember Zakk Wylde one time, saying he's sick of wussies who act like they can only shred on a certain guitar.....he boasted...gimme a POS with action like the Golden Gate Bridge and I'll tear that M'F'er up. I laughed....gotta love it.

Also, the more different neck profiles you OWN, the less difference it makes. I could pick up my 335 and do sweeps, with my right hand doing slides and pulloffs. I don't need an Ibanez shred stick. And I don't even care about shred anymore...that stuff is fun to pretend you're ever going to be Paul Gilbert, but sadly you won't. LOL You're better off learning to have good feel and note choice, and making music that doesn't sound like F'in swizzle stick with distortion! ROFL

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

I think it's all the player. You either rip, or you do not rip.
I remember Zakk Wylde one time, saying he's sick of wussies who act like they can only shred on a certain guitar.....he boasted...gimme a POS with action like the Golden Gate Bridge and I'll tear that M'F'er up. I laughed....gotta love it.

Also, the more different neck profiles you OWN, the less difference it makes. I could pick up my 335 and do sweeps, with my right hand doing slides and pulloffs. I don't need an Ibanez shred stick. And I don't even care about shred anymore...that stuff is fun to pretend you're ever going to be Paul Gilbert, but sadly you won't. LOL You're better off learning to have good feel and note choice, and making music that doesn't sound like F'in swizzle stick with distortion! ROFL

haha, Zakk's always good for a quote. Pity his band stinks. I lasted four tunes at a BLS gig, and I like to think I have a decent widdle-guitar tolerance.

Funny you should mention a 335. If wanted to really blow some smoke, the FIRST guitar I'd pick up would be my semihollow Starfire. Of course, EVH was once quoted as wishing he could play a 335 onstage (he didn't want to look like Roy Orbison) and Holdsworth used one early in his career.

Truth is most high level shredder types ARE pretty much one-guitar dudes. Vai himself has said he wouldn't know what to do with a Les Paul, and Paul Gilbert relies on his sig model, saving the oddball guitars for photoshoots. You rarely see a shredder do a Peter Stroud and switch from a Paul to a tele to 335 to an SG onstage...

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

In general, slimmer necks are faster and that's why shredders gravitate toward them.
I've bounced back and forth between slim/regular necks and fat ones, and honestly I like medium C's now. It's sort of a balance between speed and tone.

I think if VH really wanted to go with a 335, it would have been funny, because you KNOW it would have had a Floyd Rose! haha

Pete Stroud is a pretty cool guy, and a real deal player. I'm sure I'll see him on Saturday at the Amp Show. He sunk a lot of his money into 65 Amps.

 

[Dr.Mavashi]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

Yes strats are difficult to shred on, but to me, ibanez shredders are a bit ..... thin and wanky. I love Strat Metal, Mercyful Fate, YJM, Vivian Campbell, Nuno, Lynch, Vito Bratta, Iron Maiden, to me that's shred tone, some Jackson Charvel guys were great however the only one that really was part of the list above for me and played the slinys was Criss Oliva. Others? some great playing but tone? beh ...

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

i hear a lot of guys saying that strats aren't good for shred, but i would obviously disagree. i could site numerous well known examples (yngwie, joe stump, impelliteri, blackmoore, EJ, tec...), but i just don't see any reason why it's better to shred on say an ibanez. i've owned several ibanez, jackson, and bc rich guitars and none of them were particularly any better for shred than my strats.

in fact, a strat with a vintage bridge seems a little easier for the right hand than the stock US strat bridges. what do you guys think? do you really think strats aren't good for shred?

Yeah anyone with the blanket statement of "Stratocasters can't shred" is forgetting YM. Besides, any guitar can "shred" based on the one playing it and the pickups, amp, effects, etc.

 

[51501984]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

Yeah anyone with the blanket statement of "Stratocasters can't shred" is forgetting YM. Besides, any guitar can "shred" based on the one playing it and the pickups, amp, effects, etc.

And lets not forget Gary Moores Strat/Metal era.

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

Yes strats are difficult to shred on, but to me, ibanez shredders are a bit ..... thin and wanky. I love Strat Metal, Mercyful Fate, YJM, Vivian Campbell, Nuno, Lynch, Vito Bratta, Iron Maiden, to me that's shred tone, some Jackson Charvel guys were great however the only one that really was part of the list above for me and played the slinys was Criss Oliva. Others? some great playing but tone? beh ...

Yeah, before my lovely Marleen the most comfortable guitar I had ever laid my hands on was a Washburn NX3 (Nuno's Korean sig model), as for Criss Oliva, I think you all know by now how I idolize the man...

However, the Strat vs SuperStrat shredders is a very weak distinction IMO. YJM's Strat being a perfect example. Everyone regards it as a perfectly by the book Strat and yet it has more in common with a Jackson Dinky than with a MiM Std Strat (even less with a 50's or 60's Strat)...

 

[Metalblaze]

Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

Hmmm. I've seen more than one occasion where a kid walks into a studio with a jackson or similar and ends up recording almost everything (particularly main rhythm tracks) on LPs, strats, SGs and similar. in fact, I wouldn't hesitate to suggest that a lot of the recorded stuff you list under 'superstrats' is probably not a superstrat at all. Everything without wang bar on the first VH album is an ibanez destroyer, for example, and Lynch has a couple of nice old Les Pauls that have done a lot of work.

Now I've played some ok sounding superstrats in my time, but the fundamental problem with most of them is that they are designed in a way that removes wood from critical areas: under the bridge, at the neck joint and on the neck itself. Not a great idea if you're looking for a warm, balanced, resonant sounding guitar.

Hehe, no, I didn't mean their studio tone, but the live one or the one they have on some lesson or demonstration videos. For Kee Marcello you can check their '87 Final Countdown tour. His tone is really great!

Anyway, I don't know guys, but I really can achieve any tone I want (within metal limits) with my superstrats and setup. I can get very warm and heavy with a good bite, very weighty tone. I never had any problems with that. I keep on thinking that it's all about the amp, setup and adjustments. Maybe my opinion is based on the fact that from all the guitars I've heard and played, the superstrats had the real focus and clarity I need (especially the neck-through ones).

You're better off learning to have good feel and note choice, and making music that doesn't sound like F'in swizzle stick with distortion! ROFL

I completely agree with this. The phrasing is the most important thing, whatever the speed you're playing in. I don't know what exactly shred means (is it neoclassical arpeggio sweeps? taping? just fast runs? I don't know) but music is all about melody and feel and not just many scale exercises put together.

If a guitarist has the ability to play very fast solos, but still retains the control over his note choice, making them (solos) sound soulful and inspiring, that's the highest level of playing anyone can achieve.