Stripping...
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ItsaBass
New member
Re: Stripping...
Since you want exact details, I just checked my basement. "Kleen Strip Aircraft Remover" is what I get at the auto paint shop in Frogtown (L.A.). My other can, "Jasco Premium Paint and Epoxy Remover," is the one that I get at Orchard Supply Hardware (which barely qualifies as a hardware store - more like an amateur home improvement store). Both of them work about the same, though the Kleen Strip does seem to be slightly stronger (just a little). I have used both to remove lacquer, polyurethane (a '94 Godin), polyester (a modern Squier bass), and Fullerplast (a '70's Fender). There is other stuff out there that is even stronger, if you want to go looking for it. It will be billed as industrial-grade aircraft paint and/or epoxy remover, though I don't know a particular brand, as I've never needed it. But whatever you get, make sure that the main active ingredient is methelyne chloride ("MC"). And don't expect the stuff to do it all in one pass on a smooth poly surface. You need several passes on a roughed-up surface for it to do it. And you need to let the stuff sit. Wrap it up in plastic after applying it, so it doesn't dry out before it stops eating the poly. It also helps to do the stripping in warm weather conditions; even doing it in direct sunlight (vs. shade) seems to speed the stripping action. The stuff burns your skin, and it is bad for your body if you inhale it, especially if you have a weak heart already. Wear dish gloves, a breathing mask, and eye protection.
It's work, and time (usually a few days of work), but I highly prefer it to abrasion for removing poly. I'd rather roll up some messy newspapers and take them to the local hazmat disposal place than have poly dust all over the damned place. Plus, there is less chance of accidentally reshaping or "de-leveling" the body if you use chemicals.
Since you want exact details, I just checked my basement. "Kleen Strip Aircraft Remover" is what I get at the auto paint shop in Frogtown (L.A.). My other can, "Jasco Premium Paint and Epoxy Remover," is the one that I get at Orchard Supply Hardware (which barely qualifies as a hardware store - more like an amateur home improvement store). Both of them work about the same, though the Kleen Strip does seem to be slightly stronger (just a little). I have used both to remove lacquer, polyurethane (a '94 Godin), polyester (a modern Squier bass), and Fullerplast (a '70's Fender). There is other stuff out there that is even stronger, if you want to go looking for it. It will be billed as industrial-grade aircraft paint and/or epoxy remover, though I don't know a particular brand, as I've never needed it. But whatever you get, make sure that the main active ingredient is methelyne chloride ("MC"). And don't expect the stuff to do it all in one pass on a smooth poly surface. You need several passes on a roughed-up surface for it to do it. And you need to let the stuff sit. Wrap it up in plastic after applying it, so it doesn't dry out before it stops eating the poly. It also helps to do the stripping in warm weather conditions; even doing it in direct sunlight (vs. shade) seems to speed the stripping action. The stuff burns your skin, and it is bad for your body if you inhale it, especially if you have a weak heart already. Wear dish gloves, a breathing mask, and eye protection.
It's work, and time (usually a few days of work), but I highly prefer it to abrasion for removing poly. I'd rather roll up some messy newspapers and take them to the local hazmat disposal place than have poly dust all over the damned place. Plus, there is less chance of accidentally reshaping or "de-leveling" the body if you use chemicals.
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Re: Stripping...
I appreciate your effort to get the names of the products for me. I'll look for them and give it a try.
Thanks for all that info on products and how to use them. Did you find that you had to use multiple applications to get all the finish off? Also, did you have to "rinse" it off with paint thinner/mineral spirits, or some other thinner afterwards?
PS: sorry if I came across as being argumentative. It's just that from my experience of using several different types of stripper, I couldn't find anything that would touch poly...even with heat and scraping. But I will be sure to try what you have recommended and hope for the best. Again, thanks for your help.
I appreciate your effort to get the names of the products for me. I'll look for them and give it a try.
Thanks for all that info on products and how to use them. Did you find that you had to use multiple applications to get all the finish off? Also, did you have to "rinse" it off with paint thinner/mineral spirits, or some other thinner afterwards?
PS: sorry if I came across as being argumentative. It's just that from my experience of using several different types of stripper, I couldn't find anything that would touch poly...even with heat and scraping. But I will be sure to try what you have recommended and hope for the best. Again, thanks for your help.
Re: Stripping...
I can certainly testify to that. Using a belt sander can do some serious damage to the nice flat wood surface and require much work to smooth/even it out again.
I can certainly testify to that. Using a belt sander can do some serious damage to the nice flat wood surface and require much work to smooth/even it out again.
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Stripping...
It's not textbook ideal, but lacquer and poly are compatible, either way (lacquer over poly or poly over lacquer).
This one that I have in progress is lacquer over poly. The lacquer went down just as nicely and sanded just as well as if I had used a lacquer sealer. And it actually dries (lacquer doesn't "cure") faster than if you had put it over lacquer. It will help the overall thickness that the original finish was actually a pretty nice and thin matte poly. You could see the imprint of the wood grain in the surface of the poly. I couldn't have applied a lacquer sealer coat any thinner than the factory poly, really. I prepared the surface with 400 dry sandpaper before priming it with a lacquer primer.
It isn't just me in my garage who does that, though. Every Fender from '63 onward that has had lacquer on it, including many present-day Custom Shop guitars, and all American Vintage Reissue Series guitars, has been lacquer over some form of plastic-like sealer ("Fullerplast").
And not even considering the Fullerplast thing, Fender did both lacquer-over-poly and poly-over-lacquer from the late '60's through CBS' sale of the company in the '80's. Lacquer was often used as a top coat on lower-end models like the Musicmaster Bass, even though the color coats were poly. And the color coats on sunbursts were sprayed in lacquer even through the '70's, though the clear coats went to poly starting in '68. So sunbursts were basically a lacquer sandwich on poly bread. Fullerplast sealer (basically poly), lacquer colors, then poly clear.
This doesn't even bring up that fact that many (most, actually) '60's custom colors were acrylic laquers, not nitrocellulose ones. So those guitars were poly sealer, acrylic color, then nitrocellulose clear. Three different types of materials on the same guitar, straight from the factory.
In a perfect world, it is of course preferable to match finish types throughout a project. But that doesn't mean that you must do so, or that anything really bad will happen if you use both lacquer and poly coats in a paint job. In fact, if you are going for historical accuracy on a Fender paint job, you have to use both types (and sometimes three types) in many cases.
As for your questions about stripping poly, it takes many passes, and you must give the poly some sort of tooth for the stripper to latch onto. To prepare the poly to be stripped, I started at 400 grit, then worked backwards to 100 or 120, then applied the stripper. I think I took three or four days, and probably a whole quart of stripper, to strip the finish and the Fullerplast sealer off of a '70's Fender that I refinished. The key is to not be in a rush, I guess. After all the Fullerplast was finally off, I used mineral spirits and then sandpaper to clean the remnants of the stripper off, so that they didn't interfere with the refinish. I suppose acetone would work well also, if not even better. (I didn't have any at the time, so I used the mineral spirits.) This was an ash body, with ash's relatively deep and wide grains. It would probably be a little easier on alder.
It's not textbook ideal, but lacquer and poly are compatible, either way (lacquer over poly or poly over lacquer).
This one that I have in progress is lacquer over poly. The lacquer went down just as nicely and sanded just as well as if I had used a lacquer sealer. And it actually dries (lacquer doesn't "cure") faster than if you had put it over lacquer. It will help the overall thickness that the original finish was actually a pretty nice and thin matte poly. You could see the imprint of the wood grain in the surface of the poly. I couldn't have applied a lacquer sealer coat any thinner than the factory poly, really. I prepared the surface with 400 dry sandpaper before priming it with a lacquer primer.
It isn't just me in my garage who does that, though. Every Fender from '63 onward that has had lacquer on it, including many present-day Custom Shop guitars, and all American Vintage Reissue Series guitars, has been lacquer over some form of plastic-like sealer ("Fullerplast").
And not even considering the Fullerplast thing, Fender did both lacquer-over-poly and poly-over-lacquer from the late '60's through CBS' sale of the company in the '80's. Lacquer was often used as a top coat on lower-end models like the Musicmaster Bass, even though the color coats were poly. And the color coats on sunbursts were sprayed in lacquer even through the '70's, though the clear coats went to poly starting in '68. So sunbursts were basically a lacquer sandwich on poly bread. Fullerplast sealer (basically poly), lacquer colors, then poly clear.
This doesn't even bring up that fact that many (most, actually) '60's custom colors were acrylic laquers, not nitrocellulose ones. So those guitars were poly sealer, acrylic color, then nitrocellulose clear. Three different types of materials on the same guitar, straight from the factory.
In a perfect world, it is of course preferable to match finish types throughout a project. But that doesn't mean that you must do so, or that anything really bad will happen if you use both lacquer and poly coats in a paint job. In fact, if you are going for historical accuracy on a Fender paint job, you have to use both types (and sometimes three types) in many cases.
As for your questions about stripping poly, it takes many passes, and you must give the poly some sort of tooth for the stripper to latch onto. To prepare the poly to be stripped, I started at 400 grit, then worked backwards to 100 or 120, then applied the stripper. I think I took three or four days, and probably a whole quart of stripper, to strip the finish and the Fullerplast sealer off of a '70's Fender that I refinished. The key is to not be in a rush, I guess. After all the Fullerplast was finally off, I used mineral spirits and then sandpaper to clean the remnants of the stripper off, so that they didn't interfere with the refinish. I suppose acetone would work well also, if not even better. (I didn't have any at the time, so I used the mineral spirits.) This was an ash body, with ash's relatively deep and wide grains. It would probably be a little easier on alder.
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jon the art guy
Nerdy Nerd
Re: Stripping...
Well, I for one am monitoring this thread because I have a Hamer Scarab 2 with a 1 piece mahogany body I'd like to take down and start again. Warmoth would charge me an arm and a leg to reproduce that.
Unless you'd like to chip in.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Well, I for one am monitoring this thread because I have a Hamer Scarab 2 with a 1 piece mahogany body I'd like to take down and start again. Warmoth would charge me an arm and a leg to reproduce that.
Unless you'd like to chip in.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
dominus
King Midas to Cheap Guitars
Re: Stripping...
Yup, Kleen Strip Aircraft Remover seems to be about the strongest stuff you can get over the counter. Hit the body with a coarse grit sanding pad first to scratch up the surface, that helps a LOT. Cut open a large garbage bag and use it to keep the fumes down and help the stripper work. Wear THICK rubber gloves. That stuff burns on contact. The Rustoleum version doesn't work as well. You'll still need to hit it with sandpaper, but I've had it remove 80-85% of the paint with two applications.
Here's one after just one application:
Yup, Kleen Strip Aircraft Remover seems to be about the strongest stuff you can get over the counter. Hit the body with a coarse grit sanding pad first to scratch up the surface, that helps a LOT. Cut open a large garbage bag and use it to keep the fumes down and help the stripper work. Wear THICK rubber gloves. That stuff burns on contact. The Rustoleum version doesn't work as well. You'll still need to hit it with sandpaper, but I've had it remove 80-85% of the paint with two applications.
Here's one after just one application:
The Dali
MeltedClockologist
Re: Stripping...
Agree - it would cost a lot, and I know many people enjoy the act of refinsihing - not putting that down either. I think it is great when people work on an old guitar and restore it.
I've found, however, that the costs in materials (stripper, sand paper, etc), the time involved in stripping and cleaning, and the quality of the end result are greater and more frustrating than simply starting from scratch.
Agree - it would cost a lot, and I know many people enjoy the act of refinsihing - not putting that down either. I think it is great when people work on an old guitar and restore it.
I've found, however, that the costs in materials (stripper, sand paper, etc), the time involved in stripping and cleaning, and the quality of the end result are greater and more frustrating than simply starting from scratch.
