Subwoofer Question.?

y2stevo

y2stevo

New member
Hey guys, Hoping some of you can chime in on this.

Ok so I managed to pick up an Alto PA system.2 Alto Elvis 15" Tops and Alto Mistral 900 Poweramp (2x 300w at 4ohm, 2x 190w at 8ohm).
They sound frickin absolutley fantastic!.But i was looking into getting a a Set of Subs to 'biggen' up the sound.

firstly i'm torn between a few options.

1. Pair of matching Alto 15" Subs, Which may not be the best since thats alot for that not so very powerful amp.

2. 1 Matching Active Alto 15" Sub for the time being (no speaker out on this one, so it would mean i would need another active Sub to Expand i.e. not so versatile a Rig)

3. A relativly inexpensive relativley powerful poweramp (http://www.musicstore.de/en/PA_Homerecording/6_70_G_0_PAH0000535-000/0/0/0/detail/musicstore.html)
with a pair of Subs (not sure which Subs yet though,mabye some suggestions if you like this option? thankie :cop: )

4. A relativly inexpensive relativley powerful poweramp (as above) with 1 Dual Sub, Either 2x15 or 2x18.possibly this(http://www.thomann.de/thoiw6_yamaha_sw_215_iv_prodinfo.html?sn=456151b028eb97348dcd69c7750beb54) yamaha dual 15" Sub(tho doesnt seem to have internal x-over and pumps out 33 Hz-2 kHz, not sure if that could become a problem or anything?) This option would mean I could simply put it vertically and stack 1 Top on it and use the other on a stand.

If you guys have any other ideas i'd be glad to hear it :nana:

i don't have a super big/don't want to spean alot/ on the Sub-side of things(as i've heard one should really put the vast majority of thier money on quality tops and that high quality subs aren't all that necessary, or am i wrong?)

Thanks alot!:nana:
 
Re: Subwoofer Question.?

i'd go with option #2. active speakers dont cost much more then passive + power amp cost (also actives should come with cross-overs). One sub is probably all that you would need unless you play in large areas or outside. You might also want to look into a crossover. My 15" Cerwin Vegas sound much more clear crossed over around 80Hz with the subs taking everything below.
 
Re: Subwoofer Question.?

how far are you planning on taking this rig in the future? is it just something to use for sound in smaller shows that you throw on your own, or do you plan on running a full sound system for bands in the future?

if you know you want to expant it down the road, i'd stay away from any active/powered speakers. if you buy a powered sub, then that's what you're stuck with...you won't be able to run more power through those speakers later (unless this is what you're after).

otherwise i'd go for a pair of the 15's and a power amp. that way, you could add even more subs later (a pair of 18's? :D ) and whatever top speaker's you want.

a buddy of mine started out with a 300 watt amp into a pair of 12" PA speakers. over time he build a pair of folded horn 15" subs and similar pair of 18" subs, and added another pair of 15" two way speakers, and a pair of 12" two way's, and about 3000-5000 watts of power. he's done sound for us at a few shows, and those subs that he build just absolutely kick.

but anyway, what you should do all depends on how far you want to go with it in the future.
 
Re: Subwoofer Question.?

Thanks guys for yo helpz shizzles.

About on far im planning on taking this rig in the future:

I have no clue. I do know that we will have a few Gigs in Med sized Clubs withing the next 4-6 months(if not sooner), So I would be looking for something that would be easily expandable, (i.e. if I were to get say 1 passive Sub and a power amp for now, then if needed be i could Hire an additional Sub for the night easily with no need for an additional Amp etc,which wouldn't be the case with getting an active Sub)

Also the notion of me doing sound for people may also be the case, I just don't know whats going to happen down the road,and I'm planning on hanging onto this System for many Years So the most versatile option may be the best?




Thanks alot again! :rolleyes:
 
Re: Subwoofer Question.?

I HATE active subs.

They're heavy, complex, and most times the amps they come packaged with are barely adequate for the job at hand.


Get whatever sub cabs you like ( I preffer dual 15's) and get a good power amp to go with them. Get an amp that pouts out 25% more power than the cabs can handle, this way, you won't clip the amp.
 
Re: Subwoofer Question.?

I still think you should go active. JBL and Mackie both make nice active subs for well under $1000 (you said you didn't want to spend alot). Passive subs with amps will sound better but get ready to dish out the $$$.
 
Re: Subwoofer Question.?

Compare those same active subs from Mackie to a pair of Yamaha S118's and a Crown RMX 2450. No contest. ;)
 
Re: Subwoofer Question.?

I See I See

Thanks alot guys!!!!

Do any of you have any experience with the 18" 800w Behringer B1800X Pro?
I see it on a local website for not such a bad price.

Would one of them with a powerful Amp be more than plenty for even Medium sized Clubs?


Thanks alot!
 
Re: Subwoofer Question.?

Behringer makes decent processors and mixers, but I'd stay away from their speaker cabs.


Far away.


JBL makes some single 18" cabs that aren't too expensive (JRX series), as does Yamaha and, if you can stretch your budget a bit, B-52 makes some killer folded horn 18's.
 
Re: Subwoofer Question.?

Cool thanks!


What exactly is a "folded Horn"?

I noticed a few Mackie's and Fohhn's on Thomann that are classed as Subs but have horns usually at the bottom of the cab?


Thanks
 
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Re: Subwoofer Question.?

here's a link i found to the mackie sub..i think. http://www.mackie.com/products/fussion1800/index.html



Is the behringer B1800X Pro really that bad??

i've heard fairly good thing about their guitar cabs. Would it really make a big noticable difference for such low freq's (40Hz-160Hz) than using say a B 52?
I seen a band a few weeks ago in the local using 2 behringer Subs (I think it could have been the same ones) stacked on top of each other then a Top on top of that stack, (they only used 1 top on top of the 2 Subs at 1 side of the stage) and they (IMO) got a Great, Big Sound. Especially the Vocals and Thump from the kick.
One Best cover bands i've seen so far also, At least probobly the best Sounding!
 
Re: Subwoofer Question.?

If you're spending your own money on PA equipment, durability is king. That's why I would stay away from Behringer. I also don't like the way they're voiced. ð
 
Re: Subwoofer Question.?

As far as the Mackie goes, It looks good at first, but I see two big design flaws:

You must purchase the matching tops. What if I really like the JBL's I'm using now?

WTF, NO COOLING FAN!?! This is simply unacceptable on a 2500w power amp intended to drive a sub.
 
Re: Subwoofer Question.?

Benjy_26 said:
As far as the Mackie goes, It looks good at first, but I see two big design flaws:

You must purchase the matching tops. What if I really like the JBL's I'm using now?

WTF, NO COOLING FAN!?! This is simply unacceptable on a 2500w power amp intended to drive a sub.
Click to expand...

the mackie has a 'huge heat sync' eliminating the need for a fan. lol maybe they put the amp right in front of the 18" woofer.

That mackie is really nice though (139 dB peak is really good). I didn't know that they made you buy all of their crap (they hint about using the fusion tops but never actually tell you). Thanks benjy I would have never picked up on that.
 
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Re: Subwoofer Question.?

Oops. Didn't realise it was active :smack:


Ok for just under twice the price of the behringer would be I could get A JBL
M PRO 255 S 200 SeriesJBLhttp://www.thomann.de/thoiw6_jbl_m_pro_255_s_200_series_subwoofer_prodinfo.html?sn=09ece959250f6b06051fde5bfd1e82da

link to JBL site>> http://www.jblpro.com/mpro/series_200.htm
It's a Dual 15" Sub, it would also look well with the Grey carpeted ALTO tops..

I don't see how 1 of them Couldn't be too little for even a small-med sized Club So i guess if i'm spending my own cash i might aswell get good quality everything!! :smack:



So if that would be a satisfactory Sub what would your recommendation be for a Power amp?

keep in mind that for a power amp i might buy a good and powerful one to use for the TOPs instead of the 600w Alto one so as I could maximise headroom where its much more important..?


Thanks again benjy, ks and muttons :bigthumb:



EDIT: have you had any experience with Crown Poweramps or Phonic? I see 2 pretty powerful ones in my immediate price range.
 
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Re: Subwoofer Question.?

ksmith63 said:
I can highly recommend crown power amps. IMO best in the buisness.
Click to expand...
Cool

Do you have experience with the XLS series?
I was looking at the XLS 602 II


Thanks
 
Re: Subwoofer Question.?

Crown is solid, but the QSC RMX series has a better slew rate (it reacts faster). This is desireable in a power amp used with subs.

If you aren't clipping the amp for your mains, just get the big amp for the subs.
 
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