Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

[Rabelais]

Hello to everyone. I recently bought a Laney Cub 12R (a 15-Watt, 1x12 combo). It’s a nice little amp, but a little too bright for my taste. With the gain knob maxed, if I dial the tone knob above 1.5 and the treble knob above 4.5, the amp’s high frequencies become harsh and piercing.

I would like to get a distortion sound that has a top end as restrained as possible. So I'm planning to change the amp's stock speaker (Celestion Rocket 50) with either an Eminence Patriot Cannabis Rex, or a Celestion G12-65 Heritage.

Any opinions on these speakers?. Are there any other warm, dark speaker models that are good for bright amps?.

I'm also planning to replace the amp's stock tubes with 2 JJ EL84 and 3 Sovtek 12AX7-WA (all tested and rebranded by Groove Tubes). This tube replacement is an emergency measure. The stock tubes just died, and I only had these two models at hand.

However, I would greatly appreciate any suggestions on other tube models and brands that are warm, dark and good for taming amp brightness.

Thank you very much for taking the time to read this post.
Peace.

 

[hermetico]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

Try TAD EL84 instead of JJ, they are tighten in basses and, less piercing that JJ.
Or, use Sovtek EL84, it's a very smooth and even tube, a bit monodimensional but, can be what you need.
The darker one is the EH EL84, it's very sweet but tend to be lost in the mix but, maybe it will work for your amp.

In pre-amp. Forget WA, they don't sound good. Makers just use them to tame noise.
Try a TAD 12AX7-S Highgrade in V1 and, a well tested JJ ECC83S in V2 and a Sovtek 12AX7-LPS in PI position (I guess V3).

 

[BEACHBUM]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

I tried everything from tubes to beam blockers. The C-Rex was the instant answer to getting rid of my ice pick problem.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

Some amps simply cannot be tamed. Baddy design/ cheap parts. I had a Carvin Bel-Air that I did extensive mods to, changed all kinds of speakers, tried different guitars ,different tubes , and that thing was ever icepicky as all heck.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

Russian 6P3S (not with the 'EV' suffix). They're fat, rich and warm sounding with some roll-off at the top. JJ ECC83's in V1 & 2, Sovtek 12AX7LPS in the PI spot...

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

Are you positive you even love the amp? Because if not, its cheaper to pass it along and find something you like.

EL-84 amps are best suited to clean and midgain jangle, for roots rock. If you're wanting a tough rock sound out of it, you'd be better off with an EL-34 or 6L6 amp. I know there's exceptions to everything, but sometimes it's better to just point yourself toward an amp that has the type of tone you want. And also, learn which speakers you really like and then stick with them.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

Both of those speakers have a warmer top end than the Celestion Rocket 50 so you're on the right track. I'd also suggest a new tube for the front end, those Sovtek WA's just have a bland tone thats sort of thin on top.

However, all of this said I have to ask...

Why worry about where the treble control is?? If it sounds right then roll with it but if you are in a situation of 4.5 is too bright but 4.0 is muffled then speakers and tubes are in order...

Good thing about speaker swaps is when you sell the amp you can keep or sell the speaker separate if you keep the stock speaker!

 

[Rabelais]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

Thank you for tour suggestions, hermetico, BEACHBUM, Phantasmagoria. Lots of options ... I guess I'll have to experiment, which is fun!.

Thank you for yor replies, MetalManiac amd Gearjoneser. I'm positive I love the amp, and I feel it's got more potential. So I basically want to upgrade it and control the top end. It's great for what I want to do. If I wanted a tough rock sound, I would have bought a something like a Peavey 6505.

Thanks the gouy who invented fire. It's the amp's master tone control that worries me a bit. I cannot dial past 1.5.

Cheers.

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

I think the cheapest option is to pick several new V1 tubes and experiment with them. They probably won't change the sound drastically, but it may be enough that you decide the amp is worth keeping. If not, you're out $30 or so, and you have backup tubes. To tame the brightness, I would suggest a Chinese selected tube, or a JJ long-plate ECC803S. I just really dislike the tone of the short-plate ECC83S JJ tubes, but that's a personsal preference. They certainly have less treble.

If that doesn't work, I think the next thing is to try a speaker. I'm kind of a dyed-in-the-wool Vintage 30 guy, so I may not be the best to help you in that department, but I'd give the tube thing a shot first. Good luck.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

a Celestion G12-65 Heritage.

This.

Changing the speaker/cabinet affects frequency response way more directly than tube swapping, provided you've got no bad tubes running in the amp.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

I suggest buying nothing at all. No need to spend a dime on a tonal issue that is one of the easiest ones to fix. Too much treble is almost never a hard to solve issue. Too little is the tough one. At 1.5 and 4.5, you have not run out of room on your amp's tone controls, so there isn't really anything wrong. 1.5 and 4.5 wouldn't be on the amp at it if it was expected that they would never be used. Plus you have controls on your guitar too. Both your on-board tone control and your on-board volume control heavily affect tone, specifically by removing treble. And you can also set up your pickups differently in order to tame some treble.

FWIW, Sovtek 12AX7-WAs and WBs are the worst sounding pre-amp tubes I've ever had the displeasure of using. If you think an unpleasant top end is getting on your nerves now, just wait till you have those in the amp. I'd suggest pretty much anything but those if you need to get 12AX7's.

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

Put a small-value capacitor across the outputs of the phase inverter tube or output transformer primary.

 

[Petrovsk Mizinski]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

Don't forget the Tube Screamer too. Very effective at killing some of the harsh high and upper mids.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

Tubes will sometimes help..sometimes alot. More often than not, the change is not dramatic.


Speaker changes however, are very dramatic. The Rocket50 is a pretty meh low end speaker. I would take your amp to a local shop and plug it into a quality cab to see what happens. Or if you are intent on a new speaker, the Celestion H30 70th anniversary has bigger bass, warm highs and nice full midrange..perfect for taming a bright amp, and beefing it up. They sound better in a closed back cab, but work decently in combo amps.

 

[IM4Tone]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

This.

Changing the speaker/cabinet affects frequency response way more directly than tube swapping, provided you've got no bad tubes running in the amp.

Tubes will sometimes help..sometimes alot. More often than not, the change is not dramatic.

Speaker changes however, are very dramatic. The Rocket50 is a pretty meh low end speaker...................

^^^+1
The Rocket 50 is IMO one of the worst speakers of a major brand that I know of!

Have you tried an EQ pedal in-the-loop? Often yields great results, especially when using high gain.

 

[Rabelais]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

Thanks Mr. Whizzy, vinta9e, crusty philtrum, JeffB IM4Tone. More options for 12AXY7's!.
Taming treble is one of my problems. The other is the amp's speaker. The Rocket 50 is Celestion's budget 12 inch speaker, and as sucho, it doesn't have a peculiarly exciting sound. In this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWK0sa7tlfI

The Celestion H30 70th Anniversary sounds great. I'm not so sure about the Vintage 30 for what I want to do. I guess I'll have to connect my amp to cabs that have these speakers, to hear how they sound (I don't know if I will be able to try them all). The whole idea is to improve the basic tone of my amp. An EQ pedal also souds like a good option for more tone sculpting.

Thanks Petrov Mizinsky. I own a TS 808 (reissue), and I absolutely love it. It's the only dirt pedal I still use after I bought this tube amp. I've completely ditched the other ones I had.

Thanks ItsaBass. Like I said treble taming is one part of my problem. I just want an overall bigger and fuller sound from my amp, and I'm afraid the Rocket 50 is not the best speaker for that. But you're right about not having enugh treble. I'll have to choose my speaker carefully.
I know the Sovtek WA is not the most highly regarded 12ax7 tube. Has anyone tried the new Gold Lions?

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

I'm convinced the Rocket 50 and the Seventy 80 are both made so amplifier manufacturers can slap a Celestion sticker on their combo and help sales with low cost. I think compared to Greenbacks, Vintage 30s, and G12H-30s, those two are Celestion in name only.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

I think the 70/80 in my Blackstar ht 40 sounds good for what it is. I do agree their is probably a better speaker out their for what I play but the 70/80 isn't all that bad. I can't speak on the Rocket 50.

 

[CTN]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

The G12-65 is a good speaker for a punchy sound with smooth treble that's still articulate. It'll be a major improvement over the Rocket50.

 

[Rabelais]

Re: Suggestions for taming my amp's brightess - please help!

Thanks Mr. Whizzy, Rockstar 216 and CTN.
So far it's 3 votes for the Celestion G12-65, 2 for the C-Rex, and 1 for the Celestion G12H-30.
Regarding the tubes, I'm afraid that the amp's EL84 tubes are the ones that crapped. So for the time being, I'll swap them for the JJ'S, and keep the pre amp tubes (Shuguang 12AX7-AC5-HG), until I decide which of all your recommendations I like the best.
Cheers.