Quencho092
New member
a friend of mine is looking for a serious tone monster. What is a good "boutique" brand for a 'pafish' humbucker.
super high end PAFish pickups
- Thread starter Quencho092
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T
TheArchitect
Guest
Re: super high end PAFish pickups
The Duncan stuff is every bit as good but if you want other makers try Voodoo or Lindy Fralin
The Duncan stuff is every bit as good but if you want other makers try Voodoo or Lindy Fralin
bryvincent
New member
Re: super high end PAFish pickups
tom holmes, J.M. Rolph, wagner
tom holmes, J.M. Rolph, wagner
Jeff_H
Dean Hardtail Fanologist
Re: super high end PAFish pickups
If you want a PAF pup that looks and sounds like you caught a time machine back to 1957, swiped a new PAF right off the Gibson assembly line, and transported back to 2004.....Seth Lover Model.
If you want to sneak into a collector's or famous musicians vault and steal a PAF from a real 1959 Les Paul, that has been used and played and aged for the last 40 + years in countless smoke filled clubs and world arena tours, and has probably seen at least 100 groupies naked (but you don't want to go to prison and become the love slave to a guy named Bubba)....buy the Antiquity HBs.
There are others like Fralin, Vodoo, Rolph, ect....but think about this. Seth Lover invented the PAF HB back in the mid 1950's. Before his death (RIP) he spent countless hours with Seymour tracking down all of the vintage correct materials and re-creating that magic pickup. The Seth's and Antiquities are even wound on the same Leesona machine that wound the true PAF's...not a similar model, not even the exact same model....the exact same machine used in the Gibson factory in the 50's and 60's. Talk about mojo.
You can spend all the money you want searching and searching, but for $120 a pup, you can have the real deal designed by the man himself, and built by the best pickup guru alive on the planet today.
If you want a PAF pup that looks and sounds like you caught a time machine back to 1957, swiped a new PAF right off the Gibson assembly line, and transported back to 2004.....Seth Lover Model.
If you want to sneak into a collector's or famous musicians vault and steal a PAF from a real 1959 Les Paul, that has been used and played and aged for the last 40 + years in countless smoke filled clubs and world arena tours, and has probably seen at least 100 groupies naked (but you don't want to go to prison and become the love slave to a guy named Bubba)....buy the Antiquity HBs.
There are others like Fralin, Vodoo, Rolph, ect....but think about this. Seth Lover invented the PAF HB back in the mid 1950's. Before his death (RIP) he spent countless hours with Seymour tracking down all of the vintage correct materials and re-creating that magic pickup. The Seth's and Antiquities are even wound on the same Leesona machine that wound the true PAF's...not a similar model, not even the exact same model....the exact same machine used in the Gibson factory in the 50's and 60's. Talk about mojo.
You can spend all the money you want searching and searching, but for $120 a pup, you can have the real deal designed by the man himself, and built by the best pickup guru alive on the planet today.
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Jackson dkvp
New member
Re: super high end PAFish pickups
try the anderson line
try the anderson line
Re: super high end PAFish pickups
Pretty bold statement. You must have a lot of experience comparing real PAFs with Seymour's and a number of other very good builders.
If it were 1959, and you were in Kalamazoo hangin' out with the ladies who were running the Leesona machine, you'd see them taking pups off the winder and putting them in a big box. If you took that box of pups and tried them all in the same guitar, you'd find that there was quite a variety of tones among them. Not all PAFs sound the same. It's a matter of degrees. Some PAFs don't sound all that great. Some are duds. Tone-wise, Antiquities fall on the sweet side of the PAF spectrum. I love 'em. Lollar Imperials are a lot like Ants...they have that "airiness" but they drive better and still have a great woody tone. They have great clarity. Alnico 5 mags...it's a little different flavor. I love those Lollars too. Some original PAFs used alnico 5 mags, btw. I have played PAFs that sound almost identical to my Lollars. You really have to listen, and the differences are really microscopic. Rolphs are in the same ballpark. I'm expecting some Timbuckers soon, and I'll see how they stack up. I've heard that they are a hotter sounding PAF clone (just as some originals were). I may not care for them, I may love 'em.
Anyway, it's perfectly ok to say that a pup like the Antiquity or Seth is a very good PAF clone. But to suggest that one need look no further is really unfair both to the person looking to improve their sound, and the folks out there who are building some exceptional pups...guys who will never get rich doing it, who will never put a dent in Seymour's bottom line, but who share the same passion that I'm sure Seymour has for his work.
Jeff_H said:
Pretty bold statement. You must have a lot of experience comparing real PAFs with Seymour's and a number of other very good builders.
If it were 1959, and you were in Kalamazoo hangin' out with the ladies who were running the Leesona machine, you'd see them taking pups off the winder and putting them in a big box. If you took that box of pups and tried them all in the same guitar, you'd find that there was quite a variety of tones among them. Not all PAFs sound the same. It's a matter of degrees. Some PAFs don't sound all that great. Some are duds. Tone-wise, Antiquities fall on the sweet side of the PAF spectrum. I love 'em. Lollar Imperials are a lot like Ants...they have that "airiness" but they drive better and still have a great woody tone. They have great clarity. Alnico 5 mags...it's a little different flavor. I love those Lollars too. Some original PAFs used alnico 5 mags, btw. I have played PAFs that sound almost identical to my Lollars. You really have to listen, and the differences are really microscopic. Rolphs are in the same ballpark. I'm expecting some Timbuckers soon, and I'll see how they stack up. I've heard that they are a hotter sounding PAF clone (just as some originals were). I may not care for them, I may love 'em.
Anyway, it's perfectly ok to say that a pup like the Antiquity or Seth is a very good PAF clone. But to suggest that one need look no further is really unfair both to the person looking to improve their sound, and the folks out there who are building some exceptional pups...guys who will never get rich doing it, who will never put a dent in Seymour's bottom line, but who share the same passion that I'm sure Seymour has for his work.
Jeff_H
Dean Hardtail Fanologist
Re: super high end PAFish pickups
I didn't diminish the other pickup builders out there one bit, and of course I realize that every true PAF would have had a different flavor. Perhaps my statement was a little bold, but I stand by it.
The whole PAF tone as a whole is a bit of a mystery in itself, since every one was different (as you stated, and I neglected to in my original post), and in a guitar although very similar to others, each was unique as well. Certain guitars and pickups out of those magical 1700 or so Les Pauls built between 57-60 combined to give us the "PAF" tone that we all refer to and that is so "elusive. On the flip side, many of the pups make during that era are arguably dogs, and would sound no better than many of the lesser pickups of today. What you will find from SD is consistency.
There are several pickup builders who do excellent work and have great reputations. Have I tried them all, certainly not. Will I, again, probably not. I have read enough, listened enough and researched enough to know what I'm looking for. Each pup maker will have a "variations on the theme" if you will. And in fairness, I would have to say that SD's take is a variation on the theme as well, since again, no two were really alike. I would tend to agree that the Ant's fall in the "sweet" range of the PAF tone's as well.
However, the way I see it, if you want to get as close as possible to "the PAF tone", and want it to be as consistent from pickup to pickup as is possible with the type of product we're talking about, the place to get it is from the man who worked with the man who invented it, who has the proper vintage correct materials and who has the same machine that wound the originals. IMO it's going to be tough to get much closer than that.
Peace to all in their search. This is just my opinion.
I didn't diminish the other pickup builders out there one bit, and of course I realize that every true PAF would have had a different flavor. Perhaps my statement was a little bold, but I stand by it.
The whole PAF tone as a whole is a bit of a mystery in itself, since every one was different (as you stated, and I neglected to in my original post), and in a guitar although very similar to others, each was unique as well. Certain guitars and pickups out of those magical 1700 or so Les Pauls built between 57-60 combined to give us the "PAF" tone that we all refer to and that is so "elusive. On the flip side, many of the pups make during that era are arguably dogs, and would sound no better than many of the lesser pickups of today. What you will find from SD is consistency.
There are several pickup builders who do excellent work and have great reputations. Have I tried them all, certainly not. Will I, again, probably not. I have read enough, listened enough and researched enough to know what I'm looking for. Each pup maker will have a "variations on the theme" if you will. And in fairness, I would have to say that SD's take is a variation on the theme as well, since again, no two were really alike. I would tend to agree that the Ant's fall in the "sweet" range of the PAF tone's as well.
However, the way I see it, if you want to get as close as possible to "the PAF tone", and want it to be as consistent from pickup to pickup as is possible with the type of product we're talking about, the place to get it is from the man who worked with the man who invented it, who has the proper vintage correct materials and who has the same machine that wound the originals. IMO it's going to be tough to get much closer than that.
Peace to all in their search. This is just my opinion.
TattooedCarrot
New member
Re: super high end PAFish pickups
I didn't find the Andersons to be at all PAF-like, in fact the opposite. I had an H1 H3 set in a Les Paul and they are very modern voiced.
My vote (in no particular order to be fair):
**Seth Lover
Antiquity
**Voodoo 59
**Wagner Crossroads (or Fillmore for a little more 70's heat)
Rolfs
Timbuckers (long wait)
Fralins
Holmes (if you got $500 for a set)
** are my personal favorites based on actual use by me.
Jackson dkvp said:
I didn't find the Andersons to be at all PAF-like, in fact the opposite. I had an H1 H3 set in a Les Paul and they are very modern voiced.
My vote (in no particular order to be fair):
**Seth Lover
Antiquity
**Voodoo 59
**Wagner Crossroads (or Fillmore for a little more 70's heat)
Rolfs
Timbuckers (long wait)
Fralins
Holmes (if you got $500 for a set)
** are my personal favorites based on actual use by me.
Bludave
New member
Re: super high end PAFish pickups
I recently did a comparison. 1959 LP with original PAF's Antiquities, Seth Lovers and Tom Holmes. IMO nothing compared to the real deal. As someone else said 40+ years of aging and a 40+ year old guitar was a contributing factor no doubt. But I have to say the Antiquities, and Seths were very very close. The Tom Holmes set was also very good. It really is all subjective to what you like and what you want your guitar to sound like. Bottom line is a PAF is thw holy grail. All the Duncans are very good. But so are the Holmes. All in different ways. The only way to really tell would be to install them in the same guitar, played through a couple of style Amps, with a couple of pairs of unbiased ears listening to form an opinion.
I recently did a comparison. 1959 LP with original PAF's Antiquities, Seth Lovers and Tom Holmes. IMO nothing compared to the real deal. As someone else said 40+ years of aging and a 40+ year old guitar was a contributing factor no doubt. But I have to say the Antiquities, and Seths were very very close. The Tom Holmes set was also very good. It really is all subjective to what you like and what you want your guitar to sound like. Bottom line is a PAF is thw holy grail. All the Duncans are very good. But so are the Holmes. All in different ways. The only way to really tell would be to install them in the same guitar, played through a couple of style Amps, with a couple of pairs of unbiased ears listening to form an opinion.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: super high end PAFish pickups
I use the Tom Holmes HB's in my Les Paul...I think they do the slightly hotter than normal 50's paf thing very well. Like the paf's Jeff Beck used on TRUTH, IMO.
The alnico 2 Duncan Antiquitys are more like the "normal" Gibson '57 and '58 paf: nice vocal mids with an airy but complex texture and nice vowel like tonality and smooth warm highs. The '59 is more like an alnico 5 patent number humbucker from '62 or so.
Dan Erlewine says he likes the Rolphs.
I use the Tom Holmes HB's in my Les Paul...I think they do the slightly hotter than normal 50's paf thing very well. Like the paf's Jeff Beck used on TRUTH, IMO.
The alnico 2 Duncan Antiquitys are more like the "normal" Gibson '57 and '58 paf: nice vocal mids with an airy but complex texture and nice vowel like tonality and smooth warm highs. The '59 is more like an alnico 5 patent number humbucker from '62 or so.
Dan Erlewine says he likes the Rolphs.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: super high end PAFish pickups
Here's something for you to read:
http://legendarytones.com/humbpus1.htm
Here's something for you to read:
http://legendarytones.com/humbpus1.htm
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: super high end PAFish pickups
Any suggestions on people's favorite A5 PAF clones?
Out of all of those PAF's listed above, I've tried
Holmes
Fralin
Voodoo 59
Seth
Antiquity
I actually settled on C-5/59 Nickel or C-5/Seth nickelcovered, but I should rediscover some of those good PAF tones again. I just like the C-5 because it has vintage qualities with tighter lows and a bit more output.
Any suggestions on people's favorite A5 PAF clones?
Out of all of those PAF's listed above, I've tried
Holmes
Fralin
Voodoo 59
Seth
Antiquity
I actually settled on C-5/59 Nickel or C-5/Seth nickelcovered, but I should rediscover some of those good PAF tones again. I just like the C-5 because it has vintage qualities with tighter lows and a bit more output.
Quencho092
New member
Re: super high end PAFish pickups
thanks for all the pointers everyone, i figure the ant's are the champs, followed by the seths...i expected them to turn out on top, that's good too, since my buddy didnt like the idea of spending a couple hundred bucks for good pup's.
thanks for all the pointers everyone, i figure the ant's are the champs, followed by the seths...i expected them to turn out on top, that's good too, since my buddy didnt like the idea of spending a couple hundred bucks for good pup's.
F
Falstaff
Guest
Re: super high end PAFish pickups
I have two sets of Timbuckers (made by a guy on the LPF) and I think they are the bomb. The Voodoo pickup I tried was great, too.
I have two sets of Timbuckers (made by a guy on the LPF) and I think they are the bomb. The Voodoo pickup I tried was great, too.
Re: super high end PAFish pickups
I think BARE KNUCKLE pups are really good. I do have a set of the Mules (8.7 bridge, 7.5 neck, A4 mags, missmatched coils) in my warmoth jazzmaster (korina body, all rosewood neck, fixed bridge) and that's one of the best guitars I've ever played. And I think those pickups have a lot to do with it,
and as a bonus they do also sound really good in parallel.
...just my humble opinion though...
I think BARE KNUCKLE pups are really good. I do have a set of the Mules (8.7 bridge, 7.5 neck, A4 mags, missmatched coils) in my warmoth jazzmaster (korina body, all rosewood neck, fixed bridge) and that's one of the best guitars I've ever played. And I think those pickups have a lot to do with it,
and as a bonus they do also sound really good in parallel.
...just my humble opinion though...
Re: super high end PAFish pickups
...and they are a small company, service is great and personal. They answered to all my e-mails and questions fast. And when I had placed my order, it took only four days for those pups to arrive. They do ship their products for free worldwide, and if you don't like them, for some reason, they'll swap them for free or refund your money. I think that's some serious customer service.
...and no, they didn't pay me for these comments...
http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/products.html
...and they are a small company, service is great and personal. They answered to all my e-mails and questions fast. And when I had placed my order, it took only four days for those pups to arrive. They do ship their products for free worldwide, and if you don't like them, for some reason, they'll swap them for free or refund your money. I think that's some serious customer service.
...and no, they didn't pay me for these comments...
http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/products.html
dr.barlo
New member
Re: super high end PAFish pickups
Right on, them timbuckers are real good. I too have 2 sets (and a custom neck he did for my 24fret guitar). I also love my 59s wound by Jim Rolph and 2 sets of mag-modded ants.
The voodoo neck I owned for a while was one of the best I have ever used. But did not like the bridge (for that particular guitar - in which now I am using an a4 ant in the bridge - the voodoo 59 bridge was simply too thin), but am sure that in the right guitar it could make miracles. Owned a set of holmes (alnico 4s) for a while. They were wound before he decided to take it easy and his prices exploded. Anyways, real good pickups. It is just that I sold them (made a lot of profits percentage-wise of course) and went back to PGs which I think sound very similar.
Recently got a set of P90s from Jason, and he was real helpful. I liked talking to him, and he was friendly answering my questions with patience. Am inclined to check out his paf clones (imperials) but I dunno when.
B
Falstaff said:
Right on, them timbuckers are real good. I too have 2 sets (and a custom neck he did for my 24fret guitar). I also love my 59s wound by Jim Rolph and 2 sets of mag-modded ants.
The voodoo neck I owned for a while was one of the best I have ever used. But did not like the bridge (for that particular guitar - in which now I am using an a4 ant in the bridge - the voodoo 59 bridge was simply too thin), but am sure that in the right guitar it could make miracles. Owned a set of holmes (alnico 4s) for a while. They were wound before he decided to take it easy and his prices exploded. Anyways, real good pickups. It is just that I sold them (made a lot of profits percentage-wise of course) and went back to PGs which I think sound very similar.
Recently got a set of P90s from Jason, and he was real helpful. I liked talking to him, and he was friendly answering my questions with patience. Am inclined to check out his paf clones (imperials) but I dunno when.
B
