Sustain as a function of sheer volume...

CTN

CTN

The Drama Dude
I started noticing something strange about the sustain of my guitars. I think it's partially related to the interaction between a loud (ie band volume) amp and a guitar, but I'm not sure.

It seems like when I play loud, my guitars have a lot more sustain than when I play quietly at home, even when the settings on my amp and pedals are exactly the same.

What gives?
 
Re: Sustain as a function of sheer volume...

Speaker shakes the air, air shakes the guitar, guitar shakes the strings more, and it repeats.
 
Re: Sustain as a function of sheer volume...

Yes, feedback. This is why classic AC/DC sounds so great. Amps turned up loud. It's the volume, not the gain.
 
Re: Sustain as a function of sheer volume...

^Same with Queen.

My amp has about as much gain as a JCM800, and my gain knob is on like 3.5 or on 4 at max, with B/M/T at 2/10/7. I turn up the volume for the rest. It gives me just enough dirt, with great clarity and quite a bit of headroom with very little compression. For leads, I use an EQ pedal that boosts the mids and treble, while cutting lows. It adds enough gain and compression to have a lot of sustain with a slight volume boost as well. I really like this setup, and I finally started applying that anything really can sustain if it is loud enough, without having to turn up the gain or add compression to the point I lose clarity when playing with other people. It also makes me play cleaner, because every mistake down to exactly the amount of force I use when picking can be heard.
 
Re: Sustain as a function of sheer volume...

PArtly due to feedback loop. Partly due to actual absolute threshold of sound you can hear.

Sound decays at a particulalr rate over time. Louder sound will be louder at any given point in time. Thus it takes longer for it to fall out of hearing range. Takes longer to get to < 20 db from 100 db than from 50 db. (PS - it's not linear or constant)
 
Re: Sustain as a function of sheer volume...

PArtly due to feedback loop. Partly due to actual absolute threshold of sound you can hear.

Sound decays at a particulalr rate over time. Louder sound will be louder at any given point in time. Thus it takes longer for it to fall out of hearing range. Takes longer to get to < 20 db from 100 db than from 50 db. (PS - it's not linear or constant)
 
Re: Sustain as a function of sheer volume...

interesting stuff...so it's also about perception along with the interaction between guitar and loud amp.

cool, thanks fellas.
 
Re: Sustain as a function of sheer volume...

Oh, yeah! You should pay attention to your position relative to your speaker cabinets at all times. I walk over and kneel down in front of the cab sometimes to bask in the glorious feedback overtones you can get out of a good guitar being shaken by a cranked amp. Some guitars do this more than others. It's one of the things I love about playing a neck-thru.
 
Re: Sustain as a function of sheer volume...

The pure sustain of a guitar isn't related to an amp. I know it sounds like I'm being a pecker, and I know what you mean about the interaction of a guitar and amp, but a guitar that sustains exceptionally well is a thing unto itself, and is a function of guitar quality. An amp , pickups, and volume may help that some, but theres no substitute for a great guitar that sustains well. This is not a function of resonance, although it can be. Some solid Electrics that have almost no resonance or volume unplugged sustain like mad, because they are high quality instruments. Nothing kills "natural" guitar sustain like a cheap hollow sounding , overly "resonant"( if thats what you want to call it, and most do) plinky and thin sounding budget guitar.
I will say this; Throw ten pounds of wood on a guitar, no matter what ot is, and it will tend to sustain!
In other words, if you think a good guitar sustains well with volume, a great guitar will blow you away with without so much volume, even with moderate weight.
FWIW I don't consider amplifier compression or feedback in and of itself "sustain". Almost any guitar will get that.
 
Last edited:
Re: Sustain as a function of sheer volume...

I agree with what you are saying, MetalMan, but there is also a mode where you can get a good, resonant guitar to "sustain" forever. (Yes, technically this is feedback that is extending the natural sustain of the instrument.) A nicely resonant instrument will do this better.

If I crank 20 watts into a 4x12 and stand about 4 - 6 feet in front of the cabinet, I can get notes and sometimes whole chords to sustain indefinitely on my Darkstone. Like a surfer, you can ride the edge of feedback where the harmonics *don't* take over, so the notes just keep on ringing as long as you want to hold them. It involves a bit of a dance to find the right spot, and I turn my body to the side to fine-tune the amount of feedback. I actually have gotten bored holding some chords, they will literally go on until you decide to pull the plug.
 
Re: Sustain as a function of sheer volume...

My number one LP is 11lbs and susses like a mofo
 
Last edited:
Re: Sustain as a function of sheer volume...

when you turn up the volume, a tiny gnome appears and installs a sustainiac in your guitar. he only does this work when it's loud because otherwise you'd hear his little bootsteps.
 
Re: Sustain as a function of sheer volume...

DankStar said:
when you turn up the volume, a tiny gnome appears and installs a sustainiac in your guitar. he only does this work when it's loud because otherwise you'd hear his little bootsteps.
Click to expand...
Sig worthy!

if were talking about amp sustain, I can tell you pickups are a HUGE part of the equation. Better make certain they are well potted. Volume of itself does nothing but make the amp louder- it doesnt increase sustain , well marginally maybe. You need a balance of the right compression / distortion/overdrive, the right pickups for your guitar , and good resonant or heavy guitar still is pretty fundamental., otherwise your fighting the amp, and it will let you know about it...usually by squealing like a stuck hog instead of sustaining.
 
Last edited:
Re: Sustain as a function of sheer volume...

werd - none of this applies to a 335 with Seths.
 
Re: Sustain as a function of sheer volume...

Aceman said:
werd - none of this applies to a 335 with Seths.
Click to expand...

You can get great amp sustain with that set up, although its not that easy compared to some rigs. The 335 does amp sustain/feedback in a great way. You gotta have an amp with at least some sag-a hot rod Marshall is okay, and then pick your spot on the floor s the amp feeds back i relation to the guitar and isnt so close that it squeals- its a proximity effect- the unpotted pickups are both a blessing and a curse , but it is manageable , and sounds amazing once you dial in your sound and crank the amp .Sustain for days! That said, i just wax potted my old PAF pickup.Lose some tone, but much more manageable.
 
Last edited:
Re: Sustain as a function of sheer volume...

Wouldn't it be more sensible to sell the PAF, and get a very accurate PAF remake (like the Seth Lover, Antiquity, or Fralin Pure PAF), and pot those? That way the value of the PAF isn't gone and you get very close to the sound without breaking the bank (you might have even got a little extra cash out of it).

But Aceman hit the head on the nail with louder = decay is louder too (sustain), along with a controllable feedback loop sustaining a note. Compression and drive just make sustain a whole lot easier to obtain, because the decay is kept at a more consistent volume. With at least any of the two things mentioned combined, pretty much any instrument into an amp can sustain for quite a bit. Just different methods without any right or wrong.
 
Re: Sustain as a function of sheer volume...

CTN said:
It seems like when I play loud, my guitars have a lot more sustain than when I play quietly at home, even when the settings on my amp and pedals are exactly the same.

What gives?
Click to expand...

It ain't rockin' until the guitar hears itself.

The volume threshold at which things start happening depends on the guitar's sensitivity as well as on the amplification chain (gain, compression, harmonic content). Riding the feedback at bedroom levels is at least partially possible with the right combination.

The guitar's position in relation to the speakers affects local SPL and phase accordance between the incoming sound waves and those already present in the guitar. This explains the sweet spots happening at moderately loud levels: when you hit the right note while standing in the right place, the note will sustain forever but hit a different note or move a foot away and it doesn't quite work anymore.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
between 250k and 500k needed
2
Replies
25
Views
1K
GilmourD
GilmourD
MikeS
NAD - Friedman JJ Jr.
Replies
1
Views
363
justFred
justFred
Ascension
Praise for my first gen PRS Archon after blowing a power tube
Replies
14
Views
731
JMP/HBE
JMP/HBE
ShoeGazer64
What sort of shoegazer are you?
Replies
12
Views
575
marcello252
marcello252
M
Any suggestion to replace a JB?
2
Replies
24
Views
3K
hamerfan
hamerfan
Back
Top