Swapping the black and red wires

[fretburner]

I know that Duncans have the black wire as "hot " while DiMarzio has red as "hot ".

Now, I have 2 duncans (59n and Custom Custom ), but the red wires for both pups were used as hot. Sure the "phase" won't be an issue, but will I still get the "full " sound of both pickups? The 59n don't sound so warm. In fact it's brighter than expected. Should I rewire my pups?

I didn't wire this guitar and it's got 1 volume push pull pot, 3way toggle switch.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

I presume the black and green are together for the coil split lead and white is ground? If yes, this just changes which coil you get when you split, otherwise no difference.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

+1

 

[fretburner]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

I presume the black and green are together for the coil split lead and white is ground? If yes, this just changes which coil you get when you split, otherwise no difference.

Nope. It's actually pretty weird.

The black wires go to ground in both pickups.
For the NECK pup, white and green are together and goes to the push-pull, while the red wire goes to the switch
for the BRIDGE pup, it's red+white to the push-pull, and the green wire to the switch.

Also, for the push-pull, the 2 middle terminals are grounded, instead of the bottom 2 terminals (nearest the pot), like in the Duncan wiring diagram. When the pups are split (pot is pulled up), the screw poles are tapped for the neck pup, and the bridge is the same (screw poles tapped), BUT, it seems like I'm getting something from the slugs as well.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

Should I rewire my pups?

Yes

 

[scarr]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

The neck is wired out-of-phase with itself. The bridge is technically fine, but the backwards orientation is needlessly confusing to someone who knows SD wire colors. I'd rewire it all to standard SD setup.

 

[fretburner]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

So, I rewired my pups according to the standard Duncan wiring here: http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_1v_3w_pp

The result are as follows:

1. Pot pushed down
(a) Switch Position 1: Bridge Pup FULL (screws+slugs)
(b) Switch Position 2: Bridge + Neck FULL, but sounding THIN
(c) Switch Position 3: Neck FULL, but sounding extremely THIN. My guess, out of phase.

2. Pot pulled up
(a) Switch Position 1: Bridge Pup SLUGS
(b) Switch Position 2: Bridge SLUG + Neck SLUG, sounds thicker than pot pushed down
(c) Switch Position 3: Neck SLUG, sounds thicker than position 2 pot pushed down. It also seems to be tapping the screw poles a little.

Any ideas?

Should I make the red wire as hot? Join black+green for split? and the white wire as ground?

Or do I have a different problem?

HELP!

 

[Artie]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

The black wires go to ground in both pickups.
For the NECK pup, white and green are together and goes to the push-pull, while the red wire goes to the switch.

Quick question before I type 4 paragraphs.

Are these pickups new and/or factory untouched? Or might they be used, or "messed with" by a previous owner?

 

[fretburner]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

Quick question before I type 4 paragraphs.

Are these pickups new and/or factory untouched? Or might they be used, or "messed with" by a previous owner?

I have no idea. I bought the 59N used. It looked like it is in great shape and relatively new.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

It's also possible that the magnet is reversed in the neck pup.

Try reversing the mag in the neck pup and keep the wiring as per the SD diagram you posted.

 

[fretburner]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

It's also possible that the magnet is reversed in the neck pup.

Try reversing the mag in the neck pup and keep the wiring as per the SD diagram you posted.

How difficult is it to reverse the mag(s)?

I've done numerous wirings and recently replaced pots on a dist pedal and modified a wah. I think I'm pretty okay with a soldering iron and with opening things up, but I never touched a pickup other than the wires and raising/lowering the screw poles.

 

[trevorus]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

How difficult is it to reverse the mag(s)?

I've done numerous wirings and recently replaced pots on a dist pedal and modified a wah. I think I'm pretty okay with a soldering iron and with opening things up, but I never touched a pickup other than the wires and raising/lowering the screw poles.

Easy. Loosen the bobbin screws a little, and push the magnet out with a small screwdriver. Flip it, and put it back in. Tighten the bobbin screws. Just be careful of the wires that are on the ends of the pickup.

Sent from my chromed robot turd, using the miserable junk code known as crapatalk.

 

[fretburner]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

Easy. Loosen the bobbin screws a little, and push the magnet out with a small screwdriver. Flip it, and put it back in. Tighten the bobbin screws. Just be careful of the wires that are on the ends of the pickup.

Sent from my chromed robot turd, using the miserable junk code known as crapatalk.

I have to remove the tape protecting the bare copper wires to be able to push out the magnet right? What kind of adhesive do I use to put the tape back once I've flipped the magnet?

Also, can I do some test to check if the magnet really is reversed? I tried putting a JB screw to screw, slug to slug, with the bridge pup and as expected the JB is repelled. Doing the same on the neck pup gave me the same result. Reversing the poles, i.e. screws to slugs and the pups attract.

By "flipping" the magnet, for example, when the magnet is laying flat on a table, it would be "rotating" the magnet, versus, tipping it over right?

I was reading some stuff on the internet, and found these:

http://behindthetone.com/johnfisher/buck/magnetor.gif

http://www.ironstone-pickups.co.uk/_/rsrc/1372002387794/technical-support/electric-guitar-pickups-explained/Single%20Coil%20-%20Humbucker%20Comparison%20jpg.jpg

 

[AlexR]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

No removal of tape!!!!
This will equal dead pickup more likely than not....ask me how I know:smack:

The end that has the wires for the lead is where you push the mag from. Just peel the tape up enough to see the end of the mag, and make sure your flathead screwdriver isn't going to sever any coil start/finish wires. Push level with the baseplate and it should slide out. You can either flip it like a pancake or rotate it like hands on a clock. Either way it needs to be 180 deg from where it is oriented now. Don't do both or you're back where you started.

 

[Artie]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

Do you have a meter? If so, go here, and follow the steps I describe to find out exactly where your pickup stands.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

You can remove the cloth surround tape, but not the black paper tape on the coils.

 

[fretburner]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

Do you have a meter? If so, go here, and follow the steps I describe to find out exactly where your pickup stands.

So... I followed those steps and here are the results:

Black (+) and White (-) = 3.93k --> Studs
Red (-) and Green (+) = 3.93k --> Screws

What should I do now?

You can remove the cloth surround tape, but not the black paper tape on the coils.

What do you use as an adhesive for the cloth surround tape?

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

What do you use as an adhesive for the cloth surround tape?

No adhesive necessary, just reapply the tape. It should be fine.

 

[fretburner]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

No adhesive necessary, just reapply the tape. It should be fine.

Cool. Thanks!

Btw... I did some more measurement and I joined the Red + White wires, as per Duncan Standard wiring, and put the leads on the Black and Green wires, and the meter read 7.86K, then...

I joined the White + Green wires, put the leads on the black and red wires, and I get the same reading, 7.86K.

 

[fretburner]

Re: Swapping the black and red wires

I tried flipping the magnet but I could NOT push it out. I removed the cloth tape, tried to push it out, but it seems like it's glued or something... So I did the other trick to get it back in phase (?)...

I soldered red+white wires and soldered it to the push-pull pot, then the green wire went to the toggle switch, then black and bare to ground.

The result is that it splits to the coils (instead of the slugs) and I'm still OUT of phase.

HELP!!!