Agustaburn
New member
Does the pearly gates have blanced coils? Any details will help, wire size etc.
I'm thinking of hybriding a PG with a Custom.
I'm thinking of hybriding a PG with a Custom.
Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
- Thread starter Agustaburn
- Start date
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
Evan said a while back that they're not mismatched, they are symmetrical.
Evan said a while back that they're not mismatched, they are symmetrical.
Agustaburn
New member
Re: Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
What's the diffrence between a PG and a 59? Wire size, windings?
What's the diffrence between a PG and a 59? Wire size, windings?
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
They were slightly mismatched in the one I measured. Each coil had a slightly different DC resistance. Lew
They were slightly mismatched in the one I measured. Each coil had a slightly different DC resistance. Lew
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
How much of a difference?
How much of a difference?
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
I don't remember...but since it's a 4 conductor humbucker it was easy to measure. They were differant though. I assumed that was where the more open tonal quality came from, because mismatched coils does result in a little more open quality to mids and one coil dominating the other slightly resulting in a brighter tone...as you know. (laugh!) Did Evan really say they were identical?
I don't remember...but since it's a 4 conductor humbucker it was easy to measure. They were differant though. I assumed that was where the more open tonal quality came from, because mismatched coils does result in a little more open quality to mids and one coil dominating the other slightly resulting in a brighter tone...as you know. (laugh!) Did Evan really say they were identical?
PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
In fact, I thought that Dimarzio had the trademark/patent on mismatched coils, so the only way Duncan could make the PG was because it was a clone of a real pickup...
In fact, I thought that Dimarzio had the trademark/patent on mismatched coils, so the only way Duncan could make the PG was because it was a clone of a real pickup...
korovamilkdud
WhoDatologist
Re: Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
Yeah, I wouldn't think he'd say that, they weren't identical on mine either. I thought the mismatched coils was part of the identifying features of the PG!
Yeah, I wouldn't think he'd say that, they weren't identical on mine either. I thought the mismatched coils was part of the identifying features of the PG!
pstarove
New member
Re: Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
Dimarzio has a patent on mismatched coils only using DIFFERENT gauge wire IMHO. So anyone can make mismatched coils using the same wire for both coils, like AWG42, for example. I was told by a well known local winder that you have to be really careful about that because if you mismatch the coils more than 50 Ohms, the hum becomes really noticeable. When using different wire, you can easily make a pickup that has coils that have very different DC resistance (for example, Dimarzio Air Norton 12.5K=5.0K+7.5K), but it will be full humbucking because the number of turns in each coil is exactly the same.
AFAIK the PG has very slightly mismatched coils, like 50 Ohm. The same can be said about Gibson Burstbuckers. Mine are very silent, so I suppose they are very slightly mismatched.
Dimarzio has a patent on mismatched coils only using DIFFERENT gauge wire IMHO. So anyone can make mismatched coils using the same wire for both coils, like AWG42, for example. I was told by a well known local winder that you have to be really careful about that because if you mismatch the coils more than 50 Ohms, the hum becomes really noticeable. When using different wire, you can easily make a pickup that has coils that have very different DC resistance (for example, Dimarzio Air Norton 12.5K=5.0K+7.5K), but it will be full humbucking because the number of turns in each coil is exactly the same.
AFAIK the PG has very slightly mismatched coils, like 50 Ohm. The same can be said about Gibson Burstbuckers. Mine are very silent, so I suppose they are very slightly mismatched.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
Me too. I thought that's why they sound the way they do!
Me too. I thought that's why they sound the way they do!
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
I'm not saying he's wrong, but I've constructed several hybrids, like a Custom/59 for example, that have 2-3k mismatches with no noticeable hum problem.
I'm not saying he's wrong, but I've constructed several hybrids, like a Custom/59 for example, that have 2-3k mismatches with no noticeable hum problem.
gripweed
Jolvisologist
Re: Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
Here ya go
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=102897&highlight=pearly
Its about scatter winding, but it still gets rid of a myth regarding PAFs
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=67821&highlight=pearly&page=2
Interesting how this thread pops up every couple of months and the same answer gets repeated!
Here ya go
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=102897&highlight=pearly
Its about scatter winding, but it still gets rid of a myth regarding PAFs
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=67821&highlight=pearly&page=2
Interesting how this thread pops up every couple of months and the same answer gets repeated!
B
BigDaddy
Guest
Re: Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
If I am not mistaken DiMarzio has a patent on using two different sized wires on a humbucker. Like one bobbin with 43 and the other with 42. If that means having them mismatched DC resistance wise I'm not sure.
A PG is miss matched as all PAF type pickups should be. That means more noise though because you limited the effect of hum cancellations. The bigger the miss match the more noise the more open sounding and more highend.
One reason the Custom, CC and C5 sound so good is because they are matched. No noise, even sound with thick mids and less highs. They are also potted which changes a pickups sound too. In my opinion potting darkens the pickup and eliminates some of the liveliness.
One reason certain pickups sound good is the slight microphonics.
To get a great sounding pickup it a balance of all those things including winding techniques. That's why Duncan makes so many variations on a PAF.
My personal tastes are closely matched coils but not exactly, potted and scatter wound. The magnet depends on the guitar. But i do like the even coils on the bridge pups.
I noticed my Alnico II pros hums a bit and the CC doesn't on one of my guitars. I forgot if I measured the coils but I sure do like the sound a lot!!!
If I am not mistaken DiMarzio has a patent on using two different sized wires on a humbucker. Like one bobbin with 43 and the other with 42. If that means having them mismatched DC resistance wise I'm not sure.
A PG is miss matched as all PAF type pickups should be. That means more noise though because you limited the effect of hum cancellations. The bigger the miss match the more noise the more open sounding and more highend.
One reason the Custom, CC and C5 sound so good is because they are matched. No noise, even sound with thick mids and less highs. They are also potted which changes a pickups sound too. In my opinion potting darkens the pickup and eliminates some of the liveliness.
One reason certain pickups sound good is the slight microphonics.
To get a great sounding pickup it a balance of all those things including winding techniques. That's why Duncan makes so many variations on a PAF.
My personal tastes are closely matched coils but not exactly, potted and scatter wound. The magnet depends on the guitar. But i do like the even coils on the bridge pups.
I noticed my Alnico II pros hums a bit and the CC doesn't on one of my guitars. I forgot if I measured the coils but I sure do like the sound a lot!!!
pstarove
New member
Re: Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
Custom=AWG43 wire
59=AWG42 wire.
Read my post carefully, I've been talking about SAME gauge wire.
By constructing a Hybrid you are basically making a Dimarzio Norton using Duncan coils. Or a hotter Dimarzio Fred.
Custom=AWG43 wire
59=AWG42 wire.
Read my post carefully, I've been talking about SAME gauge wire.
By constructing a Hybrid you are basically making a Dimarzio Norton using Duncan coils. Or a hotter Dimarzio Fred.
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W
WGTP
Guest
Re: Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
With productions variations in the 42 guage wire, there will normally be a slight difference in the resistance of each coil. My PG measured within that allowed variance and all SD pickups I have ever measured did.
Evan said each coil had the same number of winds, but that doesn't mean each is wound the same way???
With productions variations in the 42 guage wire, there will normally be a slight difference in the resistance of each coil. My PG measured within that allowed variance and all SD pickups I have ever measured did.
Evan said each coil had the same number of winds, but that doesn't mean each is wound the same way???
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
Yes. Both coils can be wound the same number of turns and have the DCR slightly different. If the difference was less than 0.1k, it's symmetrical for all intents and purposes, because just holding the pickup in your hand for 15 or 20 seconds can change the reading that much, and one coil may have gotten more warmth from your hand than the other.
Yes. Both coils can be wound the same number of turns and have the DCR slightly different. If the difference was less than 0.1k, it's symmetrical for all intents and purposes, because just holding the pickup in your hand for 15 or 20 seconds can change the reading that much, and one coil may have gotten more warmth from your hand than the other.
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
The patent is about a humbucker not only with 2 different wire gauges but also both coils have to have "substantially the same number of turns". If you don't have both, there is no patent violation.
You can have pretty wide splits (even 1.0k) and not get noticeable noise. The tone will have a bit more P90-ish sizzle on top -- but the overall tone will vary not only with the split but will also depend on which coil is stronger.
It really depends on how thin the wax is mixed and how long you leave it in the pot. Thick wax + long time = dull pickup...and vice versa.
The patent is about a humbucker not only with 2 different wire gauges but also both coils have to have "substantially the same number of turns". If you don't have both, there is no patent violation.
BigDaddy said:
You can have pretty wide splits (even 1.0k) and not get noticeable noise. The tone will have a bit more P90-ish sizzle on top -- but the overall tone will vary not only with the split but will also depend on which coil is stronger.
BigDaddy said:
It really depends on how thin the wax is mixed and how long you leave it in the pot. Thick wax + long time = dull pickup...and vice versa.
W
WGTP
Guest
Re: Symetrical coils on the Pearly Gates?
Winding tighter or looser would vary the lenght of wire used and still have the same number of turns. Same with pitch rate and pattern. I would assume winding it tight, but not breaking it, requires some practice.
Winding tighter or looser would vary the lenght of wire used and still have the same number of turns. Same with pitch rate and pattern. I would assume winding it tight, but not breaking it, requires some practice.