Synth Pickups

[itbepopples]

I'm very interested in adding a synth pickup to my guitar but so far I've only found a Roland pickup and have read reviews that are all over the place. Does anyone know of any other synth pickups? Which ones are on all the Brian Moores?

 

[Mincer]

Re: Synth Pickups

Brian Moore's use RMCs, which are about the best permanent intallation hex pickups you can buy. A close second is the GraphTech system, but the RMCs piezos sound better and tend to track a bit better.
For external non-permanent installation, try the Yamaha G1d as well. What synth are you wanting to control?

 

[itbepopples]

Re: Synth Pickups

I'm thinking a GR-33 but I don't know enough about synth gear yet to be set in my ways. All I know is the pickup will be going on my #1 guitar (a Strat) and I want the best. Period. I've learned the hard way over and over again that if you want something to work do it right instead of do it cheap. I'm thinking this would be especially true for Synth pickups since tracking can be crappy if you cut corners. Where can I look at info for the Yamaha, RMC and Ghost pickups? A quick google hasn't turned up anything yet.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Synth Pickups

www.rmcpickup.com ..if you want the best, this is it. period.

http://www.graphtech.com/prodghost.htm ...graph-tech ghost- there are a lot of people who say these work great too. Cheaper than the RMCs.

As far as a synth goes, it depends what you are going to use it for, and what your budget is.

 

[itbepopples]

Re: Synth Pickups

I just looked at the RMC site and they don't seem to have a set for bridges with offset intonation screws so it looks like the Ghost is a winner. I'm going to be using it for piano, synth keyboard, and other instruments/sounds my band is lacking. I also would like to mess around with all the different options on the processor since my amp is a straight up vintage design and I don't use any pedals with it.

EDIT..I just compiled a list of all the parts required for the Ghost system but I don't see any sort 13 pin output jack on there. Will I need to buy that separately or does the signal go through a 1/4" jack?

 

[Mincer]

Re: Synth Pickups

i am guessing the 13 pin output jack musit be available...you need it for the synth to work, although the piezo output just uses a 1/4" output, you need it to be stereo (you send the magnetic & piezo output through an insert cable).

If this is all for live use, and you just need some basic sounds, you can do fine with the GR-20 or 33. Be sure to budget for a full-range amp to put the synth through- it sounds terrible through a guitar amp.

 

[itbepopples]

Re: Synth Pickups

It says on the website that the hexaphonic pickups are routed through MIDI on the 1/4" cable...does the 13 pin jack use just good ole MIDI too?

EDIT....I downloaded the pdf catalog and it now says it includes the 13 pin jack. Thanks for all the help!!

 

[Mincer]

Re: Synth Pickups

no, I think it is either wrong or just not clear.
a guitar with a hex pickup needs a 13 pin out...now, you can run the regular magnetic pickups in 2 pins of the 13 pin out, but if you want to use the piezo system, you need a separate 1/4" out. I use a 13 pin cable with an insert cable, which is a 1/4" stereo cable ending in two 1/4" mono plugs. The 13 pin cable goes to a synth, like the GR-33. Or to a midi converter, like the GI-20, which then, uses a midi cable to go to a synth.
13 pin is *not* midi...it is just a hexaphonic output. the hex output must be converted to a language a synth understands. the GI-20 converts it to midi, the GR-33 uses propriatary Roland conversion that doesn't involve midi.

 

[tone4days]

Re: Synth Pickups

+1 to everything mincer has shared .. i have a moore with an RMC and the synth interface it provides is flawless ... i use a gr33 and like it very much ... but if i had to do it over, i'd get the roland half width, single space guitar synth interface box and fill the other half space with one of their synth modules ... i like rack gear better than floor gear for reduced stage clutter and protection against spilled beers / unexpected rain ... and +1 on the full range sound reproduction .. a powered PA speaker or equivalent is ideal ...

my perfect rig would be a rack with a 1 space power conditioner, a 1 space tuner, a 1 space synth setup as described, a 1 space piezo preamp (rackmountable D-TAR mama bear would ROCK), a 1 or 2 space electric guitar preamp w/ effects (carvin tone navigator or rocktron prophesy) and a 1 space mixer all feeding a high quality powered speaker (JBL, MACKIE, YAMAHA, etc) ... all controlled by a rocktron midimate and an ernie ball volume pedal as midi continuous controller pedal ... and maybe a wah

good luck
t4d

 

[Mincer]

Re: Synth Pickups

-you'd most likely want a Behringer FCB1010 instead of the Midimate, since it can sent a lot more midi messages, which means more control. You get 5 program change messages, 2 continuous control, and note on messages per preset. I can trigger bass notes with my feet- it is really cool.

 

[tone4days]

Re: Synth Pickups

wow - i had no idea ... would be alot more than i currently need, but future expandability is always a good thing

 

[itbepopples]

Re: Synth Pickups

So can I use one output jack (a 13 pin) for both the hex and magnetic pups? I'm under the impression that you can use just the 13 pin into one of the Roland units which will route the magnetic signal separately no? I won't be using a piezo by the way. Also, how do you pronounce piezo? Is it pee-ay-zo or pie-zo or what?

*EDIT*

How wide is the actual 13 pin connector minus the plate and everything? If it's small enough I'm going to cut the jack plate on my Strat to accomodate it so I don't have to really butcher my guitar. Mincer, I stumbled upon a website that has a lot of information about hex, piezo and magnetic systems and then I saw the guitar and thought that looks familiar. Sure enough it's your website. Great stuff!

 

[Mincer]

Re: Synth Pickups

oh wow, thanks!
it is PIE-zo, btw. I don't think the 13 pin connector is small enough to fit on a strat jackplate, although I think there is a company called Sound Garage in Japan that replaces the 2nd tone knob for a connector- looks a little odd, though.
Yes, you can route the hex along with mag output to a Roland synth, which splits it for you.
You might want to try the piezos too, I mean, the wiring is there already- it sounds awesome.

 

[itbepopples]

Re: Synth Pickups

I was afraid it would be too big. I guess I'll make it a permanent installation since I can't fit the 13 pin into the jack plate. Since I'm doing that I might just add the piezo when I have the money...which sure as hell isn't right now. :grumble:

 

[tone4days]

Re: Synth Pickups

pee - ay - tzo is the proper pronunciation .. although it is mispronounced so frequently that the mispronunciation is spreading faster than the correct pronunciation ... i've seen people get quite worked up in their defense of the wrong pronunciation ..

it comes from the Greek work piezein which means to press ... this word was well known in the world of electronic materials far before it was used in the guitar world ... the small crystals emit a voltage directly proportional to the pressure (to press) used to deform the bonds between the atoms of the crytals ... the vibrating string varies the pressure directly in proportion to the frequency of the vibration ... so the crystal transduces the vibration to a voltage in a phenomenon called the piezo-electric effect

i asked the president of brian moore guitars specifically about using the magnetic ouput on the 13 pin versus using it from the direct output on a stereo cable .. he scoffed at the mere notion of even considering using it from the 13-pin and advised strongly to use it direct ... i tried it both ways when i got home and i instantly understood why ... yes, it is less convenient to have the 13 pin cable and the stereo cable to deal with, but it sounds WAY better ... the magnetic signal that goes through the 13 pin and comes out the GR33 audio path is heavily tone sucked

ymmv

good luck
t4d

 

[shredaholic]

Re: Synth Pickups

doesnt TO really rate the roland system?

 

[tms13pin]

Re: Synth Pickups

The only thing about going with the GI-10 or 20 vs. the floor GR
units is that you are then at the mercy of MIDI delay. The pro is
that you can use whatever synth (or sampler) that you like.

I've got a GR-33 as well as a VG-88 and a VGA-7, and some older 24-pin
GR units. Much fun!

I've got axes with the RMC (Brian Moore C90p.13 and C55EH.13... though
I may sell the latter) and the Graphtech Ghost (Gadow Custom Hollow
and Carvin Holdsworth Fatboy). It's pretty much a toss-up tone-wise
in my opinion (at least to my limited skill level as well!). The Graphtech
system is very easy to install though, and more readily available for
purchase.

--Tom

 

[itbepopples]

Re: Synth Pickups

The only thing about going with the GI-10 or 20 vs. the floor GR
units is that you are then at the mercy of MIDI delay. The pro is
that you can use whatever synth (or sampler) that you like.

I've got a GR-33 as well as a VG-88 and a VGA-7, and some older 24-pin
GR units. Much fun!

I've got axes with the RMC (Brian Moore C90p.13 and C55EH.13... though
I may sell the latter) and the Graphtech Ghost (Gadow Custom Hollow
and Carvin Holdsworth Fatboy). It's pretty much a toss-up tone-wise
in my opinion (at least to my limited skill level as well!). The Graphtech
system is very easy to install though, and more readily available for
purchase.

--Tom

Can you explain this further? Are the floor units the ones with the MIDI delay problems? I don't even know what the GI-10/20 is. I thought PIE-zo sounded a little strange. I was saying Pee ay zo but I'll be sure to add the t in zo and try to spread the correct pronounciation.

 

[tone4days]

Re: Synth Pickups

no, the floor units do not have midi delay - its all built into one unit ... the potential for delay comes in from the signals traveling around from the converter box to the synth / sampler box before the sound comes out

 

[itbepopples]

Re: Synth Pickups

I think I'm going to go with the Graphtech system simply because it's easier to install and since I need offset saddles (which AFAIK I can't get with the RMC) I can get them. With regard to the Roland floor processors...what does the GR-33 offer that the GR-20 can't? Does the quality of the processor affect the tracking at all?