PicoRiveraTele
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Re: Tappable Humbucker
I haven't "guessed" about anything.
I haven't "guessed" about anything.
Tappable Humbucker
- Thread starter Chistopher
- Start date
Jacew
New member
Re: Tappable Humbucker
I wonder why? And dare to guess this is exactly the reason tapping is somewhat of an anomaly still in guitars. If the manufacturer considers it a gimmick they just throw in some of their products... What should customer think about it?
It does work very well with SSL-7, but tapped it still has 6-7 kohms worth of wire.
I wonder why? And dare to guess this is exactly the reason tapping is somewhat of an anomaly still in guitars. If the manufacturer considers it a gimmick they just throw in some of their products... What should customer think about it?
It does work very well with SSL-7, but tapped it still has 6-7 kohms worth of wire.
PicoRiveraTele
New member
Re: Tappable Humbucker
Here's how it works out. Consider the SSL-5 for example, it has a full DC resistance of about 13k, and a tapped DC resistance about half that, 6.5k, which seems close to an SSL-1 which also has a 6.5k DC resistance... but the SSL-5 presumably uses 43 AWG wire, so the tap point is actually significantly under-wound relative to an SSL-1, and it more comparable to a 5.0k Strat pickup if it were to be wound with 42AWG, and so it produces inductance, and voltage output, comparable to a 5.0k Strat pickup. Despite the low output, it doesn't sound as thin as a 5.0k Strat pickup, because of that capacitance caused by the extra chunk of coil, which drives the resonant peak down to where it would be if it were wound to 6.5k with 42 AWG. So you might have SSL-1-like tone, but you don't have SSL-1-like voltage. They could tap the SSL-5 at 8k instead of 6.5k, and then you'd have voltage similar to an SSL-1, but now the pickup sounds dark, and customers will complain that tapping the pickup doesn't change the tone enough to make it worth while.
Coil tapping doesn't have to be a gimmick, but the way it's done causes it to become one. The new Fishman Fluence pickup set proudly features the ability to switch between output levels, they certainly don't treat it like a gimmick.
Here's how it works out. Consider the SSL-5 for example, it has a full DC resistance of about 13k, and a tapped DC resistance about half that, 6.5k, which seems close to an SSL-1 which also has a 6.5k DC resistance... but the SSL-5 presumably uses 43 AWG wire, so the tap point is actually significantly under-wound relative to an SSL-1, and it more comparable to a 5.0k Strat pickup if it were to be wound with 42AWG, and so it produces inductance, and voltage output, comparable to a 5.0k Strat pickup. Despite the low output, it doesn't sound as thin as a 5.0k Strat pickup, because of that capacitance caused by the extra chunk of coil, which drives the resonant peak down to where it would be if it were wound to 6.5k with 42 AWG. So you might have SSL-1-like tone, but you don't have SSL-1-like voltage. They could tap the SSL-5 at 8k instead of 6.5k, and then you'd have voltage similar to an SSL-1, but now the pickup sounds dark, and customers will complain that tapping the pickup doesn't change the tone enough to make it worth while.
Coil tapping doesn't have to be a gimmick, but the way it's done causes it to become one. The new Fishman Fluence pickup set proudly features the ability to switch between output levels, they certainly don't treat it like a gimmick.
gregory
New member
Re: Tappable Humbucker
...except that a tapped SSL-5 doesn't sound anything like a lower output SSL-1. Have you actually compared them?!?
PicoRiveraTele
New member
Jacew
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Re: Tappable Humbucker
That's false logic. SSL-5 and SSL-1 have all these differences you state. Tapping it to same is not going to sound same even without the effect of coil taken into account. I'm pretty sure that is noted when designing the pickups in the first place.
But it still seems rather unlikely that tapping it in the middle just happens to be the best option for all SD single coils...
That's false logic. SSL-5 and SSL-1 have all these differences you state. Tapping it to same is not going to sound same even without the effect of coil taken into account. I'm pretty sure that is noted when designing the pickups in the first place.
But it still seems rather unlikely that tapping it in the middle just happens to be the best option for all SD single coils...
Re: Tappable Humbucker
Why try to get so complicated when the result isn't going to perform noticeably different than a StagMag in parallel or split?!
I mean, if it's just out of curiosity or for fun, then God bless you and enjoy the ride. But if you're expecting some magnificent tone that the world hasn't heard yet...well that's not going to happen with what you're trying to do.
Or you could just put 2 Quarter Pounds together and wire one of them with a separate vol pot (ala spin-a-split).
Why try to get so complicated when the result isn't going to perform noticeably different than a StagMag in parallel or split?!
I mean, if it's just out of curiosity or for fun, then God bless you and enjoy the ride. But if you're expecting some magnificent tone that the world hasn't heard yet...well that's not going to happen with what you're trying to do.
Or you could just put 2 Quarter Pounds together and wire one of them with a separate vol pot (ala spin-a-split).
PicoRiveraTele
New member
Re: Tappable Humbucker
You're kinda putting words in my mouth. The fact that they have similar resonant peaks doesn't mean they will sound the same, rather it's to say that getting the tapped treble response up to a certain point is a bare minimum towards reaching that goal. The amount of resonance might differ. The lower output of a tapped SSL-5 also means it's not hitting the front of the amp as hard as an SSL-1, which can also cause the tone to differ.
Well let's put the question to Seymour Duncan Co... "why have you intentionally made your tapped pickups sound bad for over thirty five years???"
You're kinda putting words in my mouth. The fact that they have similar resonant peaks doesn't mean they will sound the same, rather it's to say that getting the tapped treble response up to a certain point is a bare minimum towards reaching that goal. The amount of resonance might differ. The lower output of a tapped SSL-5 also means it's not hitting the front of the amp as hard as an SSL-1, which can also cause the tone to differ.
Well let's put the question to Seymour Duncan Co... "why have you intentionally made your tapped pickups sound bad for over thirty five years???"
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
Re: Tappable Humbucker
Please don't make me lock my own thread. I didn't ask in the original post whether or not Seymour Duncan knows what they are doing, nor do I care. My question was about the easiest way to wire a tappable humbucker with the least amount of wires.
Please don't make me lock my own thread. I didn't ask in the original post whether or not Seymour Duncan knows what they are doing, nor do I care. My question was about the easiest way to wire a tappable humbucker with the least amount of wires.
PicoRiveraTele
New member
Re: Tappable Humbucker
There must be some mistake; the reply you quoted was not in response to anything you posted.
There must be some mistake; the reply you quoted was not in response to anything you posted.
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
Re: Tappable Humbucker
It's still causing conflict, which has been on the rise in the SDUGF over the past week or so. What good will arguing do?
It's still causing conflict, which has been on the rise in the SDUGF over the past week or so. What good will arguing do?
Jacew
New member
Re: Tappable Humbucker
Stag mag is only a single pickup. I think this thread was about a concept, not single product or attempt to achieve certain tone.
Wiring two single coils in series, tapping does give 2 extra voicing for them. It's not a big difference though. In parallel, tap becomes much more useful, and really expands the possibilities.
With humbuckers, tapping might be really great option for hotter A5 pickups especially. I would rather buy tapped version. You're not losing anything, even if you never actually use it.
Stag mag is only a single pickup. I think this thread was about a concept, not single product or attempt to achieve certain tone.
Wiring two single coils in series, tapping does give 2 extra voicing for them. It's not a big difference though. In parallel, tap becomes much more useful, and really expands the possibilities.
With humbuckers, tapping might be really great option for hotter A5 pickups especially. I would rather buy tapped version. You're not losing anything, even if you never actually use it.
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Tappable Humbucker
I hope this is on topic, but I always thought it might be interesting to mount two Hot Rails, or Cool Rails, or any single-sized humbucker for that matter, side by side so that you could sequentially select any combination of the four coils. Seems like there'd be a lot of versatility, tone wise, in that configuration.
I hope this is on topic, but I always thought it might be interesting to mount two Hot Rails, or Cool Rails, or any single-sized humbucker for that matter, side by side so that you could sequentially select any combination of the four coils. Seems like there'd be a lot of versatility, tone wise, in that configuration.
PicoRiveraTele
New member
Re: Tappable Humbucker
Four rails in total from two two Rails pickups side by side is a good way to go, but the problem is that to get a good low output tone you'd have to run two or four coils in a strange combination of series and parallel, which is how Vintage Rails works, it's like a hotter Rails pickup that they instruct you to wire in parallel, which is a waste of wire. The requirement here would cause any control layout to become ridiculous.
A much easier way to do it would be with DiMarzio Cruisers, which based on their wiring diagrams shows that it gives a "single coil" output with series wiring. So then to get hotter or cooler sounds all you have to do is start adding or removing coils in series. Supposing each Cruiser coil comes in at 1 henry, two coils would give you 2 henries and humbucking, add a third coil and you're up to 3 henries with partial humbucking, run all four and you have 4 henries and full humbucking again. You'd get a good gradient from very thin to very fat sound. It could be wired fairly easily with a rotary style switch, it would be schematically similar to a single pickup with multiple tap or split points.
Four rails in total from two two Rails pickups side by side is a good way to go, but the problem is that to get a good low output tone you'd have to run two or four coils in a strange combination of series and parallel, which is how Vintage Rails works, it's like a hotter Rails pickup that they instruct you to wire in parallel, which is a waste of wire. The requirement here would cause any control layout to become ridiculous.
A much easier way to do it would be with DiMarzio Cruisers, which based on their wiring diagrams shows that it gives a "single coil" output with series wiring. So then to get hotter or cooler sounds all you have to do is start adding or removing coils in series. Supposing each Cruiser coil comes in at 1 henry, two coils would give you 2 henries and humbucking, add a third coil and you're up to 3 henries with partial humbucking, run all four and you have 4 henries and full humbucking again. You'd get a good gradient from very thin to very fat sound. It could be wired fairly easily with a rotary style switch, it would be schematically similar to a single pickup with multiple tap or split points.
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
Re: Tappable Humbucker
I actually saw this on an artist signature Les Paul recently, but I forget who it was for. The neck pickup was actually two single coil sized humbuckers and there where two mini switches behind the bridge that toggled them on or off. I'm trying to find a picture of it somewhere, but I can't find any.
Edit: I did find a unrelated picture of the same concept:
There's a short video where the owner plays it here. The pickups from neck to bridge are Hot Rails, Lil' 59, Duckbucker, JB Jr.
I actually saw this on an artist signature Les Paul recently, but I forget who it was for. The neck pickup was actually two single coil sized humbuckers and there where two mini switches behind the bridge that toggled them on or off. I'm trying to find a picture of it somewhere, but I can't find any.
Edit: I did find a unrelated picture of the same concept:
There's a short video where the owner plays it here. The pickups from neck to bridge are Hot Rails, Lil' 59, Duckbucker, JB Jr.
Last edited:
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Tappable Humbucker
^^^ That's cool as hell! I might have to try that, or something similar.
Some of us live for ridiculous wiring.
^^^ That's cool as hell! I might have to try that, or something similar.
Some of us live for ridiculous wiring.
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
Re: Tappable Humbucker
With a tappable humbucker I think it would be better to do it with knobs. 1 knob would be a dial-a-tap, the other would be a spin-a-split. Then I'd throw a third knob into the mix as a bass cut. That way with the knobs at 0 it would be a jangly single coil, then one knob would boost the output and thicken the mids, one would boost the output and cut the treble, and the third would replace the jangle with fullness. It would act as a 3-band eq well.
With a tappable humbucker I think it would be better to do it with knobs. 1 knob would be a dial-a-tap, the other would be a spin-a-split. Then I'd throw a third knob into the mix as a bass cut. That way with the knobs at 0 it would be a jangly single coil, then one knob would boost the output and thicken the mids, one would boost the output and cut the treble, and the third would replace the jangle with fullness. It would act as a 3-band eq well.
