Teach an old dog old tricks... please.

[Rich_S]

Okay, yeah... I came up in the 70's and never learned to shred. Shoot me.

With the return of our first-year keyboard player, we have added a couple Journey songs to the set list for this year's big 25th college reunion extravaganza. The part that gives me fits is just four simple notes - the decending 16th-note lick in the introduction of "Don't Stop Believing".

I don't know how I managed it back in 1983. Actually, my most vivid memory of this song is absolutely BLOWING this part one night, hitting the big 1st-position E chord at the end, then falling over laughing. Now add lack of practice, advancing age, and arthritis to the mix, and we have a recipe for humiliation.

Years ago, I forced myself to start using alternate picking as much as possible, instead of so many downstrokes. So, I could play it as written in the first example below. The trouble is the jump over the G string between the D# and C#. I can play this fast a few time, but get all crossed up before I'm finished.

So, I been thinking about this stupid little lick. I realized a better way to play it would be two small sweeps, I think they call this "Circle" picking since it's not sweeping across multiple strings, just going back and forth across two. See second example below.

The problem with this is, I'm not used to sweeping and can't play it as fast as alternate picking. Also, the up-and-down is out of synch with the count - the downbeat is in the middle of the down sweep. So, it logically seems to be the "right" way to play the part, but it's really rough and nowhere near as fast as alternate picking.

Either way, I'm going to have to play this 1/4 measure several hundred thousand time between now and May 1st. Knowing that "perfect practice makes perfect", I'm looking for any advice I can get on how to play thing for four measures without falling apart. (Don't worry I have no dillusions of doubling speed to 32nd notes the way Neil Schon did... show-off.)

Help!!!

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Teach an old dog old tricks... please.

I really have never learned tabs, but if I am reading this right it seems that it would be simpler to play the first three notes on the B string starting with your pinky on the 17th fret. I would downstroke the 17th, upstroke the 16th, and then pull off to the 14th while preparing for a downstroke on the G @ 15.

But .... yeah, it looks like something that would wear me out trying to lock the timing in!

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Teach an old dog old tricks... please.

I'll try it.

Another way would be 2-handed tapping on the 6th string BUT if you listen to Schon play it, it's all picked. No hammer-ons, no pull-offs.

 

[GoDrex]

Re: Teach an old dog old tricks... please.

I watched a couple of videos of Neil doing it and I think he does it the alternate picking method. I tied it and it seems the easiest way to me. Hard for me to get it up to speed though. I'd just practice it slow for a long time until I could start speeding it up. Though if I had to play it, I'd probably do it alternate picking at the beginning when it's slower and then cheat with down strokes for every other note as it gets faster near the end hehehe. I'm not really a big fan of staccato picking anyway.

 

[tone4days]

Re: Teach an old dog old tricks... please.

can you get enough sustain going to just play it as two pull offs?

no one's gonna know what technique you use

just play it smooth and i bet it'll sound amazing ... its less than 20 seconds of a coupla hour gig for drunken people who are primed to enjoy your show

dont sweat the small stuff

good luck
t4d

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: Teach an old dog old tricks... please.

^that's how i play that little bit too, with pull offs and it doesn't sound too horribly bad

don't stop believin', i believe you can do it:fing2:



....:lmao:

 

[tc]

Re: Teach an old dog old tricks... please.

I'd economy pick the shiznit out of that lick. YMMY.

BTW, I understand circle picking as another thing. Eric Johnson does it a lot. He basically uses the contraction and extension of his thumb as a point where the whole motion comes along, so the thumb (and the pick) moves in a circular motion.

At least that's what I understand by circle picking. It isn't necessarily based on how many strings are being played, but rather, the place from where the pick's motion originates and the way it looks because of it.

Here's a video on circle picking:

 

[Warheart]

Re: Teach an old dog old tricks... please.

I don't understand why you are starting with an upstroke. If you have 4 notes that you're going to be repeating, maintain a consistent pattern. I would just go down up down up.
Inside vs. Outside picking basically.

You could also economy pick it as well, going down, up, up down, which will make it extremely streamlined, its just a matter of timing after that.


1. start at 60 bpm, move up in 2 bpm increments.
2. Make your movements as small as possible without actual resting the pick on the strings.
3. Slowly practice playing it with a snap, move both hands at the same time so that you maintain consistency, and reduce any transition time between notes.
4. Play other riffs that are based around these two strings in a similar fashion, keeping it pentatonic based.
5. Increase the difficulty, put a string between the two that you are playing on.

Really, just approach it from as many angles as possible, should be able to get it down pretty quickly!

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Teach an old dog old tricks... please.

I'm not - I alternate pick it down, up, down, up, which means I have to get up and over the G string to hit it with a downstoke on the third note.

In the "circle" version, I'm going down, up, up, down, so the 2nd & 3rd notes are a small up-sweep across the B & G strings, and the 4th and 1st notes are a small down-sweep back the other way.

I need to get offline (and stop building pedals) and just practice the stupid thing.

 

[RobSoundtrack]

Re: Teach an old dog old tricks... please.

Awesome thread.
To pull offs, the idea goes beyond just playing this song.
To practice this means being able to PICK that fast....whenever you want.

Also, I heard Paul Gilbert mention something I started doing.
When practicing a picked selection like this: Practice it both ways:
Starting with an upstroke, and starting with a down.
You will be amazed with the power it gives you in the future...
Good luck sir

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Teach an old dog old tricks... please.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! We had a band teleconference the other night and agreed that we had too many songs on the "learn" list - way more than we have time to play at the gig. To focus our practicing, I suggested we weed out now rather than later.

At that point, almost everybody in the band admitted they HATE "Don't Stop Believing". No one knew how it got voted onto the list for this year.

I'm off the hook! Procratination works! Yee-haaaaaa!

 

[Desert]

Re: Teach an old dog old tricks... please.

That lick has always been a tough one, for me.

The easiest way I could do it was all on the B string....17-Pinky...16-Ring...14-Middle...12-Index.

Bringing the G-string in, for me, is impossible.

 

[Sanford]

Re: Teach an old dog old tricks... please.

I tried playing it and discovered that it was indeed too annoying to include in my guitarbulary.

But while I was trying to play the thing I found myself barring across the 16th fret with my index finger and using my middle finger to fret the 1st and 3rd notes. My pick-hand developed a mind of its own after about 15 seconds and wouldn't cooperate with my intentions. I noticed that when I picked s l o w l y it was more comfortable for me to use the down-up/up-down approach. This pretty much kept my pick between the B and G strings and allowed for minimal motion with the pick.

 

[wahwah]

Re: Teach an old dog old tricks... please.

I'm off the hook! Procratination works! Yee-haaaaaa!

Absolutely! Why put off until tomorrow what you could put off until the day after?



Cheers........................................... wahwah

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Teach an old dog old tricks... please.

I tried playing it and discovered that it was indeed too annoying to include in my guitarbulary.

But while I was trying to play the thing I found myself barring across the 16th fret with my index finger and using my middle finger to fret the 1st and 3rd notes. My pick-hand developed a mind of its own after about 15 seconds and wouldn't cooperate with my intentions. I noticed that when I picked s l o w l y it was more comfortable for me to use the down-up/up-down approach. This pretty much kept my pick between the B and G strings and allowed for minimal motion with the pick.

Yeah! That is an perfect description of my experience with this dratted lick.

Absolutely! Why put off until tomorrow what you could put off until the day after?

Or the day after that? Or... never?

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Teach an old dog old tricks... please.

Procratination works!

:friday:What?:scratchch