Teach me about IR

[zionstrat]

Guys, I understand the basics of speaker modeling however I've got a situation where I can't imagine how the hardware would work. If I understand correctly, others have done the following but I don't have a clue how they did it.

I'm downsizing and have three combos that cover everything I play. So I want to replace them with their respective heads and a single full range cabinet and use IR to model the perspective speaker sounds - a410, a 412 and a single 12.

I totally understand how to do this in modeling land however, I'll have a head connected to a cabinet and I have no clue what would sit in the middle. I would assume that I might need a line output from the head to run it through something like a Helix and then onto the speaker? If so, what kind of hardware would be required? None of these amps have line outs.

Or is anyone making a box dedicated to this functionality? One thing I'm not understanding at all is I will have greatly reduced the output (40, 60 and 120 watt amps), so what is driving the speaker?

And I guess it's possible I've misunderstood and none of this is possible but figured I'd better ask the gurus.

Thanks in advance, M

 

[Mincer]

I don't think any simple IR loader pedals could handle the speaker out of head, but you could do something like a reactive load box/IR loader (the Two Notes Torpedp or something similar), which can send something to a full range speaker at the volume you want while also sending a line out to the PA.

 

[Ascension]

I don't think any simple IR loader pedals could handle the speaker out of head, but you could do something like a reactive load box/IR loader (the Two Notes Torpedp or something similar), which can send something to a full range speaker at the volume you want while also sending a line out to the PA.

Units like the Torpedo Captor can run the IR out with out a cab , with a full pass through to a cab or an attenuate from what I understand. I would contact Two Notes and some of the other companies on your needs here and get up to speed on what they offer.I have a little iso cab I use for silent stage but am thinking of going through a IR load box system at some point for what I do. I always prefer running a real cab of some type on stage and micing but sometime it;'s just not practice. Since I only run tube amps and 90% of my tone comes from my amp alone I'm looking into this also.

 

[alex1fly]

Guys, I understand the basics of speaker modeling however I've got a situation where I can't imagine how the hardware would work. If I understand correctly, others have done the following but I don't have a clue how they did it.

I'm downsizing and have three combos that cover everything I play. So I want to replace them with their respective heads and a single full range cabinet and use IR to model the perspective speaker sounds - a410, a 412 and a single 12.

I totally understand how to do this in modeling land however, I'll have a head connected to a cabinet and I have no clue what would sit in the middle. I would assume that I might need a line output from the head to run it through something like a Helix and then onto the speaker? If so, what kind of hardware would be required? None of these amps have line outs.

Or is anyone making a box dedicated to this functionality? One thing I'm not understanding at all is I will have greatly reduced the output (40, 60 and 120 watt amps), so what is driving the speaker?

And I guess it's possible I've misunderstood and none of this is possible but figured I'd better ask the gurus.

Thanks in advance, M

I've seen some speaker modeling pedals but don't know much about them. My use of IRs is basically "scroll through them until it sounds good". IRs don't sound the same as the cabinet they're modeling in a room, because they're the sound of the microphone on that cabinet and that microphone placement can vary. So you can have a bunch of IRs built off of the same 4x12 celestion cabinet and they'll all sound different. Your new full range cabinet will also affect the sound. Given this imprecise nature I'd also consider whether to keep a favorite combo and then go full in on a nice modeler. You'll get access to so many more sounds. But either way I'd keep a favorite combo because for one its nice to have options and for two its just never quite the same when you replace gear with gear to model that exact thing IME.

 

[zionstrat]

I don't think any simple IR loader pedals could handle the speaker out of head, but you could do something like a reactive load box/IR loader (the Two Notes Torpedp or something similar), which can send something to a full range speaker at the volume you want while also sending a line out to the PA.

There you go! That's exactly where I need to go. Those boxes make absolute complete sense and will definitely let me do what I'm looking for. Thank you so much and I'll give you guys an update as I move forward.

 

[Mincer]

Awesome, I hope it works out!

 

[dystrust]

I don't think any simple IR loader pedals could handle the speaker out of head, but you could do something like a reactive load box/IR loader (the Two Notes Torpedp or something similar), which can send something to a full range speaker at the volume you want while also sending a line out to the PA.

They definitely could not, though I have seen a couple basic IR loaders with a speaker pass-thru. Otherwise you're absolutely correct that you'd need some sort of load to safely use an amp and IR without a live cabinet. Also regarding the Two Notes units, the Torpedo Captor does not include an IR loader, while the Captor-X (which you've linked to) does. The basic model Captor is a reactive load box with speaker pass-thru capability, -20db attenuated output, line level output, and an optional analog speaker simulator. I've had a Captor 16 for about a year and a half, and I only really use the dry line out, both with a pass-thru cabinet and without for silent recording monitored via IR. I don't currently have a hardware IR loader, though I plan to get a BOSS IR-200 once I can find a good deal on one.

Units like the Torpedo Captor can run the IR out with out a cab , with a full pass through to a cab or an attenuate from what I understand. I would contact Two Notes and some of the other companies on your needs here and get up to speed on what they offer.I have a little iso cab I use for silent stage but am thinking of going through a IR load box system at some point for what I do. I always prefer running a real cab of some type on stage and micing but sometime it;'s just not practice. Since I only run tube amps and 90% of my tone comes from my amp alone I'm looking into this also.

Your understanding is correct, and in terms of sound it's impossible to tell the difference between a good IR and a cabinet mic'd in another room.

 

[devastone]

In the OP it sounds like you want to run an IR into a guitar speaker cabinet? That's not really the point, IRs are for running direct or into full range PA type speakers.

 

[beaubrummels]

In the OP it sounds like you want to run an IR into a guitar speaker cabinet? That's not really the point, IRs are for running direct or into full range PA type speakers.

I think he wants to use a full-range cabinet and make it sound like his 3 favorite amps with IRs of them.

 

[zionstrat]

I think he wants to use a full-range cabinet and make it sound like his 3 favorite amps with IRs of them.

Yep, That's it...

Helps me reduce footprint at home but it can also help me reduce gigging equipment - I play bass and keyboard as well as guitar, so full range speaker will work with everything.

Thanks again for all the input guys.. this is what I needed!

 

[devastone]

I think he wants to use a full-range cabinet and make it sound like his 3 favorite amps with IRs of them.

Gotcha, my misunderstanding.

 

[hamerfan]

I use a GT Trio preamp (Fender BF clean, a tweed Bassman and Marshall) into a Engl Cabloader with 16 IRs combination (cabs, microphones and output stages). The output 1/4‘ jack goes to a combo, the xlr to the FoH mixer. Perfect for home and stage.

 

[zionstrat]

I use a GT Trio preamp (Fender BF clean, a tweed Bassman and Marshall) into a Engl Cabloader with 16 IRs combination (cabs, microphones and output stages). The output 1/4‘ jack goes to a combo, the xlr to the FoH mixer. Perfect for home and stage.

Bingo! Much appreciated.