Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

[ErikH]

Last night I found an old guitar body and neck that I thought I tossed out about 7 years ago. The body is a Star shape (not an original Charvel) and the neck has a Jackson style headstock (again, not original Jackson/Charvel). These two pieces are a perfect platform for me to learn some guitar repair on.

The nut platform on the neck needs some work. It's cut for a Floyd nut but back about 12-15 years ago, I had drilled holes through it for the rear mounting bolts rather than just top mounting the nut. It looks bad though. At the same time, I'd like to convert it for use with a normal bone or graphite nut. Aside from filling the holes with maple dowels, would it be best to also use maple to "fill in" the Floyd nut route?

On to the body. The trem cavity is routed for a Floyd BUT whoever had it before I got it from a buddy of mine decided to make some additional routes for a Kahler. It looks bad and needs some TLC. I think with some careful planning and a little woodworking, I could fill all that up nicely and slap a hardtail on it. There's also a couple holes that would need to be drilled and filled with small dowels. The body looks to be alder from the color in the neck pocket. I don't know where around here I could get alder. Are there other woods that would work just as well?

What kind of glue would be best to use?

What's the best method for measuring where to cut the new nut slot? (don't worry, I have a router attachment for my Dremel tool so I can get the right router bit, which leads to the next question)

What router bit is best suited for cutting the nut slot? (flat bottom slot vs curved is OK, btw)

I think that's it for now. Like I said, this is a learning platform so even though you may recommend selling and getting what you want in another thread, keep in mind I have 4 other perfectly working guitars as well, 2 of them with a Floyd already. That said, help a brotha out.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

Since it's a fairly low budget restoration, I'd probably just fill the body with blocks of pine, then use wood putty to fill the crevices. Then spray it with a solid color of Reranch, and throw a hardtail bridge on it.

As for the neck, I'd do the same thing with any cheap pieces of dowel, and rebuild the nut area any way you see fit. I'd probably try to do it so I don't have to re-route it, but rather put a nut in there, then build up the area behind it with a nicely shaped piece of wood. Then, paint the headstock to hide all the evidence of it.

On a project like this, I don't think you'll want to spend a lot of money tracking down alder and maple pieces. Also, you might consider using a Floyd and only filling in the Kahler routs. Wouldn't that save a lot of woodwork?

 

[XSSIVE]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

the simple answer for the floyd nut....

it screws in from the back like a floyd nut yet works like a regular nut without the clamps.

allparts has 1 5/8" and 1 11/16" models

http://www.allparts.com/store/nuts-saddles-tusq-graphite-ebanol-nuts-bn-0623-023,Product.asp

and

http://www.allparts.com/store/nuts-saddles-tusq-graphite-ebanol-nuts-bn-0624-023,Product.asp

i'm pretty sure if you go through a dealer like Wymore they will be a bit less than allparts direct.

-Mike

 

[ErikH]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

Thanks, Joe. The body is painted a dark blue already so if I have to spray anything, it'll be just the filled spot. A cheap Krylon can will take care of that , unless I decide to fully strip it and repaint it, which isn't out of the question. I know I could just toss a Floyd or Kahler on it and be done but then the tinkering is done too quickly. That's why I want to convert the thing. Gives me a chance to learn some stuff in the process.

Thanks, Mike. I was looking for a nut to go on a Floyd platform. Couldn't remember what the thing was called. Does that nut *have* to be mounted from the back? Like I said, the holes for rear mounting are really bad, like off-center bad. They *have* to be filled, no bout a doubt it.

 

[XSSIVE]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

i never tried one but i don't see why it can't be glued on with a bit of super glue if you didn't want to redrill for the through the neck screws in the correct locations.

-Mike

 

[ErikH]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

Cool. I'll leave that as an option because I really don't want to have to drill through the neck, again....lol.

I found a cool tutorial w/ pics on projectguitar.com on converting a trem guitar to a hardtail. That'll be helpful.

I've seen Dave pokin' around the forums today. I'm surprised he hasn't replied yet.

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

Stop saying the word "dowels" and start saying the word "plugs". Use maple plugs to fill the holes. There's a recent article on restoring a neck in VG that tells you the difference.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

Thanks, Rich. Do you know which month the article was in?

 

[ErikH]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

Ok, slight revision. Turns out it wasn't routed for Floyd at first. It was routed for a 2-point non-locking Strat-style trem. Those holes were plugged and it was cut for the Kahler. On the neck, the holes at the nut are a bit large because I can see the sides of the truss rod nut. That could be a tricky fill and I might need to sand the edges facing the nut a little so there is no bind up with wood.

Here's some pics.

 

[shawnr]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

That's not so bad--at least they didn't just gouge it out with a chisel, lol. You can probably just glue a Gibson style nut on the peghead and plug the holes, etc. I've done that before and it's fine. I'd use wood heavier than pine if you're going hardtail, at least for the piece that the strings run through--pine for the rest of the fill work would be fine, though.

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

Thanks, Rich. Do you know which month the article was in?

May 2008. They're actually filling stripped-out neck mounting screw holes, but there's a good description of plugs and why they're better than dowels.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

That's not so bad--at least they didn't just gouge it out with a chisel, lol. You can probably just glue a Gibson style nut on the peghead and plug the holes, etc. I've done that before and it's fine. I'd use wood heavier than pine if you're going hardtail, at least for the piece that the strings run through--pine for the rest of the fill work would be fine, though.

i've done this before... i've used Gibson style nuts in a Floyd Nut Rout... makes it easy... I've also filled in a few Floyd nut areas on rosewood board necks and the repairs have been seemless... may have a harder time hiding the repair with Maple but you never know... you may still want to glue in some dowel rods into the old FRO nut holes to give the neck some extra strength... only if you worry about it...

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

Ok, slight revision. Turns out it wasn't routed for Floyd at first. It was routed for a 2-point non-locking Strat-style trem. Those holes were plugged and it was cut for the Kahler. On the neck, the holes at the nut are a bit large because I can see the sides of the truss rod nut. That could be a tricky fill and I might need to sand the edges facing the nut a little so there is no bind up with wood.

Here's some pics.

i've filled in a few routes like that in the past... i'd use alder if the body is alder... but other guitar woods would not be bad like Maple, mahogany, ash... i'd stick with Maple of alder if it can be done...

what i've done in the past to fill trem holes like that is to shape a piece that will almost fit the spot i'm filling, but slightly over sized... i make a router template of the piece i paln to fit in the hole.... and router out the edges of the hole to fit the piece i want to glue in... that way i'll have a nice tight fit

i have 2 guitars i plan to fill in the floyd routs this summer... should be interesting

 

[ErikH]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

May 2008. They're actually filling stripped-out neck mounting screw holes, but there's a good description of plugs and why they're better than dowels.

Ok, can you tell me what the difference is? They don't publish those articles online and I'm not having much luck finding VG on many newsstands around here, let alone any guitar magazine other than Guitar World.

Every plug I've seen doesn't go all the way through where as a dowel does. I know dowels are technically used for joining two pieces together but they can work well for filling in deep holes were a typical plug would not be enough.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

i've filled in a few routes like that in the past... i'd use alder if the body is alder... but other guitar woods would not be bad like Maple, mahogany, ash... i'd stick with Maple of alder if it can be done...

what i've done in the past to fill trem holes like that is to shape a piece that will almost fit the spot i'm filling, but slightly over sized... i make a router template of the piece i paln to fit in the hole.... and router out the edges of the hole to fit the piece i want to glue in... that way i'll have a nice tight fit

i have 2 guitars i plan to fill in the floyd routs this summer... should be interesting

I like what the guy does in that tutorial on projectguitar.com. Makes it a lot easier to fill in the cavity. It takes 2 pieces of wood, 1 from the top and another from the bottom.

As for wood, I was thinking pine might be OK (it worked on the first Esquires/Teles) but wanted to be sure there. Like said, it is for learning on but I'd like to at least use the proper material to do it the job.

Would Elmer's Wood Glue be sufficient or should I use something else?

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

Plugs are cut so the grain runs across the round end, so it matches the grain direction in the piece being filled.

In dowels, the grain runs parallel to the length of the dowel, so the grain would run perpendicular to the surface being filled.

Dowels aren't as strong in screw-holding applications. They also are hard to finish, because cross grain sanding is harder and slower than with the grain. So, dowels end up as low, raised bumps.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

Ah, ok, now that makes sense.

Now, to find a place that sells plugs made from maple. It's going to take a few sizes; one from the top and a bigger one from the back. When I drilled those holes, I tried to make the bottom countersink as best I could for the FRO nut bolts. Some filler may be necessary too, I can tell from the looks of it.

 

[Sanford]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

ErikH, this place might be able to help with some woods. Even if they aren't what you're looking for (price, selection, etc.) they will answer questions. They might even be able to help with finding other lumber stores in your area, as well.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

Thanks, Sanford. I found that place earlier in my searches and I know right where that location is too. $3.99 for a 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" x 12" slab of hard maple, not bad at all. I could use the leftover for other things I'm sure. They even have poplar slabs for $4.99, perfect for the body fill.

 

[XSSIVE]

Re: Techs/Luthiers - Advice & Assistance Needed

my advice...

kahler it with a floyd locking nut (top mounted after you fill the two off center holes). project done no wood working needed! you can even use one of the fixed kahlers with fine tuners if you don't want a trem.

might be able to snag this one cheap... http://cgi.ebay.com/Kahler-Fixed-Br...ryZ41407QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

-Mike