Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

[nblake]

Hi folks, been lurking here a little while and didn't see threads so far that addressed this: I'm doing some custom builds (with 2 pickups) where I want everything to have a super-clean, minimal look. The ideal pickups for these designs are Telecaster style neck pickups... and, since they're such a classic, you can find a variety of different pickups in the same chrome/gold cover format. Of course, I understand the limitations of using a neck pickup in the bridge position, but can you guys think of any particular neck pickup that would be ideal in the bridge position? Or, what would be a good combo? Maybe something hotter like a Quarter-Pound at the bridge and just a Hot Tele at the neck?

And, assuming the Quarter Pound and the Hot Tele (or any of those neck pickups) are all the same polarity and wind direction, I would need to push the magnets out of one of the pickups, flip them around, and then also swap the black/white wires on one of the pickups to get phase cancellation in the middle position?

Thanks for considering this unconventional (annoying?) question!

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

If you're going for the look, have you considered a Lace Sensor Chrome Dome?

Edit: I've never tried it, but the BG-1400n could probably keep up pretty well in the bridge position. This is made by the SD Custom Shop, so you could special order it to be noiseless and/or out of phase in the middle position. Or heck, at that point, you can probably just custom order a special bridge pickup That looks like a Tele neck.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

you cant push magnets on those pups, youll kill them. the coil is wrapped around the magnets directly on old school single coils. you can push the magnets out on modern plastic bobbin pups since the coil isnt in direct contact.

i might go vintage in the neck and qp in the bridge, id contact duncan directly and see if you can get a shop floor custom rw/rp for one of the models

 

[nblake]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

If you're going for the look, have you considered a Lace Sensor Chrome Dome?

Edit: I've never tried it, but the BG-1400n could probably keep up pretty well in the bridge position. This is made by the SD Custom Shop, so you could special order it to be noiseless and/or out of phase in the middle position. Or heck, at that point, you can probably just custom order a special bridge pickup That looks like a Tele neck.

ah... hadn't seen those, but those could be an option. Thanks! And, yeah... if I continue this route, I will have a custom batch made. I guess for the sake of trying to A/B different options, I'm curious about what is on the shelf that could work (still have lots to learn.)

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

One thing you can do is listen to sound clips to get an idea of what you want, and then ask the Custom Shop to get a similar tone to what you like that also looks like a Tele neck.

 

[nblake]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

you cant push magnets on those pups, youll kill them. the coil is wrapped around the magnets directly on old school single coils. you can push the magnets out on modern plastic bobbin pups since the coil isnt in direct contact.

i might go vintage in the neck and qp in the bridge, id contact duncan directly and see if you can get a shop floor custom rw/rp for one of the models

haha... cool... thanks for the correction! I'd only read some posts about pushing the magnets through, but thankfully hadn't attempted it yet. I do think the custom shop will be my ultimate destination but I figured I'd come to them better equipped (to know what to ask for) by putting the question to you all first. Thanks!

 

[jeremy]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

shop floor custom isnt custom shop and doesnt come with the premium price. there are a few things that you can ask for that the production floor can do for a slight upcharge

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

The Chrome Domes sound nice. I've installed a couple. They are Strat sized pickups.

You can change the polarity on alnico magnets by recharging them with a larger neodymium magnet. I've done this a few times for people.

You also have to reverse the polarity of the coil. Since it has a closed cover you don't have to worry about touching the magnets and inducing hum (the start of the coil, where the windings touch the magnets is now hot instead of ground) but make sure you disconnect the cover and reconnect it to the new ground.

There's no reason a Tele neck pickup can't be rewound hotter to be used in the bridge position.


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[nblake]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

shop floor custom isnt custom shop and doesnt come with the premium price. there are a few things that you can ask for that the production floor can do for a slight upcharge

ah... nice... thanks!

 

[nblake]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

The Chrome Domes sound nice. I've installed a couple. They are Strat sized pickups.

You can change the polarity on alnico magnets by recharging them with a larger neodymium magnet. I've done this a few times for people.

You also have to reverse the polarity of the coil. Since it has a closed cover you don't have to worry about touching the magnets and inducing hum (the start of the coil, where the windings touch the magnets is now hot instead of ground) but make sure you disconnect the cover and reconnect it to the new ground.

There's no reason a Tele neck pickup can't be rewound hotter to be used in the bridge position.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cool... I'm glad to hear that this idea isn't a total fool's errand... thanks for the reminder to swap the ground to the cover if I start operating (I bought a whole bunch of cheap Tele-style pickups on ebay to experiment with.)

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

And, assuming the Quarter Pound and the Hot Tele (or any of those neck pickups) are all the same polarity and wind direction, I would need to push the magnets out of one of the pickups, flip them around, and then also swap the black/white wires on one of the pickups to get phase cancellation in the middle position?!

The Quarter Pound Tele neck is a rather hot pickup, and would have enough output to serve as a bridge pickup. The bigger problem is that the cover is brass and it attenuates highs. Fender's Tele pickups use nickel silver covers, which retains more high end response. The Fender Telecaster Deluxe Drive neck pickup, or the Texas Special Tele neck would probably make fine bridge pickups.

Supposing you care about RW/RP noise cancelling, you'd never need to push the magnets out, you can repolarize with with a neodymium magnet because AlNiCo has a rather low coercivity. There are guides on how to do that if you google it. But IMO, RW/RP is not worth the trouble, and you can just install two neck pickup with the same polarity and same wiring. If it sounds out of phase, you just flip one of the pickup's leads.

Which raises another point, if you mix and match pickups from manufacturers, and you end up having to flip the lead wires, and the pickup's metal cover is soldered to one of the two wires, then you might end up putting the cover on the hot side of the circuit, which is bad. So long as one of the pickups has three conductors, to where the shield has its own lead wire, then you can designate as the pickup which would have its leads flipped, and since the shielding is on its own wire, there's no need to worry about the shield becoming "hot".

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

The Quarter Pound Tele neck is a rather hot pickup, and would have enough output to serve as a bridge pickup. The bigger problem is that the cover is brass and it attenuates highs. Fender's Tele pickups use nickel silver covers, which retains more high end response.

If it's not too dark in the neck, it won't be too dark in the bridge. As for reversing the polarity of magnets not being worth the trouble, it can easily be done in less than the time it took to write this sentence, but should not be necessary as the OP seems to be looking towards the Custom Shop anyway.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

If it's not too dark in the neck, it won't be too dark in the bridge..

I had the QP Tele neck, I did feel it was too dark.

As for reversing the polarity of magnets not being worth the trouble, it can easily be done in less than the time it took to write this sentence, but should not be necessary as the OP seems to be looking towards the Custom Shop anyway.

You're overstating this. A) you need a compass on hand to know what polarity youre starting and ending with. B) you need a neo magnet that is of a size and length that it's strong enough to fully saturate the AlNiCo poles, and which will not demagnetize neighboring pole pieces in the process. It's not hard, but also not effortless.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

I had the QP Tele neck, I did feel it was too dark.

all the more reason it might be a good bridge pup

which will not demagnetize neighboring pole pieces in the process.

not sure what you mean by that

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

all the more reason it might be a good bridge pup

Personally I see the hot bridge as a trade off of treble for voltage output. Having a bridge pickup that is both dark and lower output is like the worst of both worlds.

not sure what you mean by that

Suppose you have a row of AlNiCo pole pieces in a pickup, and your neodymium magnet is only half as wide as the row of pole pieces. The neodymium will be so strong that it's return path will demagnetize those other pole pieces, therefor you have to use a magnet that is wide enough to polarize them all simultaneously, and then you have to lift the bar straight away, making sure not to pull it away at an angle that would, again, demagnetize the pole pieces. If the AlNiCo poles are isotropic, they're especially susceptible to wayward flux.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

ok, i see what ya mean on that neo bit.

a dark neck pup probably isnt going to be dark in the bridge position, id guess it might be a good fit tonally

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

It's not too hard to do. If you have two magnets, a Neo bar and a weaker bar. The weaker one will tell you which way you need to put the Neo on and the Neo will reverse the polarity. What you are essentially doing is degaussing the magnet and then regaussing it the opposite polarity. There is absolutely no skill involved.

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

I'm doing some custom builds (with 2 pickups) where I want everything to have a super-clean, minimal look. The ideal pickups for these designs are Telecaster style neck pickups... and, since they're such a classic, you can find a variety of different pickups in the same chrome/gold cover format.

Wow, that IS a minimalist design. Is that a photoshop mockup? I can see why you gravitated to Tele neck pickups, but there are a lot of other pickups available with a smooth cover, and they make smooth plastic and metal covers for just about any kind of pickup, which would let you use practically anything in there. Likewise with humbuckers. Even lipsticks might look good, although they do have the visible line in the middle. I did a quick google search for "smooth chrome pickup covers" and got quite a few hits. That might make your life easier?
I like that bridge. Whose is it?
Have you considered either using a rotary switch with a matching knob or a sliding switch mounted from behind? The toggle sort of stands out from the rest of the design.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

It's not too hard to do. If you have two magnets, a Neo bar and a weaker bar. The weaker one will tell you which way you need to put the Neo on and the Neo will reverse the polarity.

A compass works a lot better.

 

[nblake]

Re: Tele-style neck pickup in the bridge position?

Wow, that IS a minimalist design. Is that a photoshop mockup? I can see why you gravitated to Tele neck pickups, but there are a lot of other pickups available with a smooth cover, and they make smooth plastic and metal covers for just about any kind of pickup, which would let you use practically anything in there. Likewise with humbuckers. Even lipsticks might look good, although they do have the visible line in the middle. I did a quick google search for "smooth chrome pickup covers" and got quite a few hits. That might make your life easier?
I like that bridge. Whose is it?
Have you considered either using a rotary switch with a matching knob or a sliding switch mounted from behind? The toggle sort of stands out from the rest of the design.

Thanks Dave. This is the first one I built... no photoshop. Here are two more I just finished up:

So far I've tried cheap ($15-20 each) tele-style pickups from random ebay sellers, some gold foils in the tele size (too thin -not enough warmth or middle for me), and SD Quarter Pound and Hot Tele's. I like the idea of sticking to one format/size so I don't have to make a bunch of different router templates, and then players can drop in different pickups if they want. And, the tele pu shape suits the shape of the body... I don't think I could stomach installing rectangular pickups in there. Hopefully, I'll be able to narrow my choices down to 2-3 different options that could come stock with the guitar... but, yeah... I've gone down many late-night online rabbit holes reading reviews, comparing spec sheets, listening to sound clips, etc.

I agree with the toggle switch on that first one...it's not ideal. I went with a larger Switchcraft switch on the white one. The bridge is an ABM 3021. It's fine, but I'd like to design my own when I get the time. I'd really prefer a fender-height bridge (it's hard for these tele-style pickups to reach high enough with a LP height bridge the way I have them mounted in the body), but I like the simplicity of a wraparound bridge and I much prefer a solid bar of aluminum over stamped steel.

I should probably make a tester guitar with a means of quickly swapping pickups just for comparison. For now, I'll build a couple more to work out the kinks before we offer any for sale. I hope this won't break any anti-self-promotion rule (happy to edit if it does) but, if you're curious, you can follow the project on Instagram: @bethguitars.

Thanks again to everybody that responded with info -you've given me lots to think about and do further research on!