Tell Me About Floyd Rose Trems. What's The Deal?

[ExplorersRock]

I played a Fender Blacktop Floyd HH Strat yesterday and was annoyed that just bending the strings made the guitar go out of tune. It wasn't any better than my vintage trem Strat with locking tuners! So what gives? Isn't having tuning stability the point of the Floyd? Old strings on the guitar maybe? Bad set-up? Bad/Cheap/Problematic nut? It was a Floyd Rose Special, are they sub-par to the Original Floyds?

I mean, I had a Washburn N2 back in the day that had a crummy licensed Floyd. The thing was so time consuming to change strings on I grew to resent it and haven't had one since. I was interested in trying again, but not if this is the normal Floyd experience. Help me here!

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Tell Me About Floyd Rose Trems. What's The Deal?

Double locking vibrato systems withstand abusive playing styles better than traditional fulcrum and floating designs. Clamping the string at both ends reduces the possibility of the string shifting and going out of tune.

The genuine FR article is machined to close tolerances out of quality materials. The majority of licensed lookalikes are not built to the same standards.

Friction points along the string will foul up any vibrato system, no matter how expensive or sophisticated.

The Fender Blacktop series is a mid-priced line. IMO, it is unreasonable to expect Custom Shop standards of such an instrument.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Re: Tell Me About Floyd Rose Trems. What's The Deal?

Sounds like something isn't locked down properly - the nut pads, or the nut itself - causing the strings to bind when you bend them.

Even a licensed unit, when set up properly, should perform well - they've come some way since the early days. The FR Special should be decent.

Off topic: Funkfingers, when are you gonna get that tasty RG410 of yours rolling?

 

[d1dsj]

Re: Tell Me About Floyd Rose Trems. What's The Deal?

I think what the op means is that just bending strings throws the rest out of tune until you return the string to normal position. This can only be overcome by setting the trem against the body for divebombs only and making sure the trem springs are tight enough so that when you bend a strings there is enough tension to keep the trem against the body without moving. If the trem is floating as soon as you bend a string the addition tension will pull the trem forward hence the other strings going out of tune until the bend is released. Hope that helped?

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Tell Me About Floyd Rose Trems. What's The Deal?

I think what the op means is that just bending strings throws the rest out of tune until you return the string to normal position. This can only be overcome by setting the trem against the body for divebombs only and making sure the trem springs are tight enough so that when you bend a strings there is enough tension to keep the trem against the body without moving. If the trem is floating as soon as you bend a string the addition tension will pull the trem forward hence the other strings going out of tune until the bend is released. Hope that helped?

I know what the OP is saying and yes that is one of the draw backs of a Floyd or any trem is that when you bend a string the tension on the other strings changes which changes the pitch for example when playing a guitar with a floyd try doing a double stop bend or any thing where your bending a string and playing a note on another string it doesnt work as well as a hardtail but unless you set it up for dive only or block the trem this will happen. Me ive learned to compensate by muting the other strings when bending or when I do double stop bends I bend the string then bend the other string just enough to get it to sound decent. On my strat it wasnt as bad but on the floyd no. My advice to you would be to when ever you bend mute the other strings ringing out or put a hair tie around the first fret like some players use when tapping to keep other strings from ringing out.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Tell Me About Floyd Rose Trems. What's The Deal?

I played a Fender Blacktop Floyd HH Strat yesterday and was annoyed that just bending the strings made the guitar go out of tune. It wasn't any better than my vintage trem Strat with locking tuners! So what gives? Isn't having tuning stability the point of the Floyd? Old strings on the guitar maybe? Bad set-up? Bad/Cheap/Problematic nut? It was a Floyd Rose Special, are they sub-par to the Original Floyds?

I mean, I had a Washburn N2 back in the day that had a crummy licensed Floyd. The thing was so time consuming to change strings on I grew to resent it and haven't had one since. I was interested in trying again, but not if this is the normal Floyd experience. Help me here!

Can you clarify whether you are talking about a "stays out of tune" or "is out of tune while I'm bending" situation?

My biggest concerns about Floyds is the sound impact of the heavy nut, and the fact that you can't properly file the nut slots.

 

[ExplorersRock]

Re: Tell Me About Floyd Rose Trems. What's The Deal?

Sorry for the initial post. It was late and I was tired, so I didn't explain well. The issue I was experiencing, specifically, was that when I was playing, I'd do a bend on say the G string. Then I'd go to strum a chord and the G was out of tune. That's what was confusing me. If the bridge and nut are locked down properly, bending the string should not cause it to go out of tune according to what I understand of a FR trem. If I have unrealistic expectations or a poor understanding, please tell me.

To Funkfingers. I agree with your general statement that a mid-level guitar should not be expected to perform like a Custom Shop one. But how about expecting it to perform like another mid-level guitar? I have a Blacktop HH strat that I installed Schaller locking tuners on. I recently had it set-up and anchored the bridge to the body. But prior to doing so, I could bend the notes with the stock vintage trem (the stock MIM version which is not what I consider quality) floating and the strings did not go out of tune each time I did a bend. Granted, they still did this from time to time, but this FR Special equipped Strat did that on almost every bend of the string. My point being that if I can't get better performance from a FR trem than a standard Fender trem with locking tuners, why buy a FR? If your point is more that this is a FR Special and that the Original FRs are better made and thus won't have this problem, do tell me more. I definitely would be willing when I finally am ready to slap down the cash for a FR equipped guitar to go upmarket if that's what will get me the desired, quality tuning stability that these trems are known for. But imagine from my perspective if I bought one and it didn't give the desired performance. That would be disappointing.:argh:

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Tell Me About Floyd Rose Trems. What's The Deal?

Saddle locks, lock nut, strings stretched properly. It's often one of those things. I've had Floyd-type trems -- well over a dozen of them -- going back a good thirteen years, and I've found that it's basically not worth locking the nut down until the strings are stretched and broken in a little. In fact, on my favorite Floyd guitar, I have locking tuners and almost never put the lock nuts on at all, because I like the sound better that way.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Tell Me About Floyd Rose Trems. What's The Deal?

Yeah a permanent detune isn't expected.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Tell Me About Floyd Rose Trems. What's The Deal?

^^ like others have said, it sounds like either a a POS floyd or more likely a POS setup. On a good guitar with a good Floyd, you can very literally pick the guitar up by the bar, shake it around and swing it above your head and have it come back in tune.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Tell Me About Floyd Rose Trems. What's The Deal?

All the locks do is eliminate any tuning issues caused by things that are outside the "note sounding" part of the string. Even locked strings can go out of tune; they just go out of tune by way of stretching or contracting between the two locks. To avoid your issue, you're not supposed to tighten the nut clamps until the strings are stable in their own right, without the nut locked. I'm sure the factory did not do that.

 

[Coma]

Re: Tell Me About Floyd Rose Trems. What's The Deal?

OP, this one is a bit out there, but well worth looking into: Remove the saddle clamps on your guitar and check to make sure that the two screws holding the nut in place are shorter than the drilled holes or at the very least level with the nut. When I got my Floyd equipped guitar, some dumbass had put in screws that were too long and it prevented the saddle clamps from tightening all the way down, sending the strings out of tune whenever I used the whammy. Took me months to discover.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Tell Me About Floyd Rose Trems. What's The Deal?

OP, this one is a bit out there, but well worth looking into: Remove the saddle clamps on your guitar and check to make sure that the two screws holding the nut in place are shorter than the drilled holes or at the very least level with the nut. When I got my Floyd equipped guitar, some dumbass had put in screws that were too long and it prevented the saddle clamps from tightening all the way down, sending the strings out of tune whenever I used the whammy. Took me months to discover.

And by "too long", you mean the head of the screw -- that has to fit into the cone-shaped countersink hole in the top of the nut itself -- is too high. (Right?)

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Tell Me About Floyd Rose Trems. What's The Deal?

It could either be the nut giving you problems or the knife edges are wore out a lil but to fix that either use some chapstick or some 3 in 1 oil on the pivot points but yea stretch the strings all the way an let them settle before locking down the nut clamp.