Tell me about magnet switching.

Re: Tell me about magnet switching.

i did it twice ... once to practice (on an old pos no name bucker), then on the 59n before i put in my ibanez 540s

just take your time .. use the proper tools ... work slowly ... take good notes .... maybe have a sharpie on hand to mark the magnet that comes out so you can put it back with the proper orientation ... make sure you arent pinching any of the tiny wires ... unwrap the tape carefully and put it aside so that you can reuse it (i hung it off the side on my workbench so it didnt stick to itself)
 
Re: Tell me about magnet switching.

Just a word of caution: when you do this, be aware that you permanently change the pickup.

You will have to put on new tape and the closest thing to Seymour Duncan's tape is the tape Stewmac sells - which is just a little bit narrower and not quite the same thing.

You also "break" the original wax potting. This isn't a big deal as a hairblower can easily seal things up again. But as long as you don't you will have a potentially more microphonic pickup.

As a result of these two items, I think that if the pickup has been pre-opened it should be declared as such when selling the pickup. And that is going to hurt your sales price.

It might be cheaper overall to trade pickups with their natural magnets in the forsale section and/or on ebay. Of course then you are double screwed if you get an undeclared pre-opened pickup :)

%%

I also disagree with Blueman's descriptions of the various Alnicos, I perceive them differently.

But of course that doesn't matter much since the whole point is that you try for yourself.
 
Re: Tell me about magnet switching.

Hey Blueman, have you compared a C8 to the new Alternative 8? If so which do you prefer and why?
 
Re: Tell me about magnet switching.

tone4days said:
unwrap the tape carefully and put it aside so that you can reuse it
Click to expand...
uOpt said:
You will have to put on new tape...
Click to expand...

I don't agree with this. I don't see any need at all to remove the tape to get the magnet out. I haven't had to do it and I've changed magnets half a dozen times.

If you use a very small screwdriver or tweezers you can easily lift the tape up enough to get the magnet out. I usually push it out with a small screwdriver. You can unwrap the tape if you want to, but I don't see any reason to.
 
Re: Tell me about magnet switching.

If the tape is around the base you'll not do that without making it ugly.

Don't understand me wrong: it won't make the tape "not work" or anything like this. But it does visible traces of modifications and that should be disclosed by a seller of a used pickup.
 
Re: Tell me about magnet switching.

uOpt said:
I also disagree with Blueman's descriptions of the various Alnicos, I perceive them differently.
Click to expand...

The EQ's I listed with the magnets are from a combination of my experience & from many posts that I've read on this forum, so there's a lot of consensus on this. But everyone hears things differently & variation in woods also are a factor.

A few points I respectfully disagree on:
- I don't think swapping magnets 'permanently changes' them, certainly not if you put the stock magnet back in. What's changed that will make the PU sound different? This isn't like taking the genie out of the bottle.
- I don't think melting the wax is required to avoid microphonic feedback, as I've never had that happen to me and I've never heated them. There's still wax in there to seat the magnet solidly and sometimes I'll take a few small pieces that chipped off, and use put them on the new magnet. Doesn't take much wax. The Asian thing of burying HB's in a half pound of wax is completely ridiculous.
- It isn't cheaper to buy a new PU (and sell it for half price) than it is to try a $5 magnet. That is not a cost effective way to do things. There are a number of posts on this forum about guys buying half a dozen new PU's trying to get the tones they wanted, and giving up in frustration, after spending hundreds of dollars. That's what I'm trying to help people avoid.
- Since I started swapping magnets, I've hardly sold any of my PU's, because I've now been able to get the tones I want. I also don't buy as many PU's, because my existing ones can usually be made to work well in one of my guitars. These days I buy a lot more $5 magnets than $100 PU's. I'm a happy boy & I have money in my pocket.

This seems like a glass-half-full/glass-half-empty thing. To me magnets are a positive experience, a very easy & economical way to create a new PU. You see it as a negative with downsides. If Seymour's taking a Custom & making new models by simply putting an A2 or A5 in it, and any of us can do the same thing to just about any any HB or P-90. No magic in that.
 
Re: Tell me about magnet switching.

uOpt said:
You also "break" the original wax potting. This isn't a big deal as a hairblower can easily seal things up again. But as long as you don't you will have a potentially more microphonic pickup.
Click to expand...

The crucial part of the potting is the coils, which is not changed by swapping a magnet. The exception is with covered humbuckers, in which case you need to do a good squeal test before selling.

UPOT said:
As a result of these two items, I think that if the pickup has been pre-opened it should be declared as such when selling the pickup. And that is going to hurt your sales price.
Click to expand...

I don't see any need for that unless the pickup is actually damaged somehow as a result. You might as well tell someone buying your guitar that you pulled the pickguard or opened the control cavity once or twice.
 
Re: Tell me about magnet switching.

Zhangliqun said:
The crucial part of the potting is the coils, which is not changed by swapping a magnet. The exception is with covered humbuckers, in which case you need to do a good squeal test before selling.
Click to expand...


I usually put my HB covers back on without resoldering. They're a snug fit with the tape & wax. Never had a feedback/squeal problem; granted I'm not playing at arena volume, but I play at local bars where it can get pretty loud. Unlike most P-90's, Phat Cats don't have any screws to hold the base plate on, so the cover holds the PU together, & resoldering is required.

My introduction to this was buying a Duncan Custom on eBay that the seller had put an A5 in, making it a C5 (which is what I was looking for). He recommended this site for more info. That's when the wheels in my head started turning. Think of the potential! It put the power in my hands, to get the tones I wanted. The power to create new PU's. Instead of buying & selling PU's, and losing money on each turnaround, I'm dialing in my existing PU's to fit my guitars & woods. I'm tried of the crapshoot of hoping and praying each new PU will sound the way I want it to, and being helpless when it doesn't.

If you have high-quality HB's & P-90's in your guitars, and they don't sound exactly the way you want them to, I don't understand why anyone wouldn't try a magnet swap or two. Sure beats living with a second rate tone, or throwing money away on a blind search for a better PU.
 
Re: Tell me about magnet switching.

GoDrex said:
I don't agree with this. I don't see any need at all to remove the tape to get the magnet out. I haven't had to do it and I've changed magnets half a dozen times.

If you use a very small screwdriver or tweezers you can easily lift the tape up enough to get the magnet out. I usually push it out with a small screwdriver. You can unwrap the tape if you want to, but I don't see any reason to.
Click to expand...

if everyone is soooo concerned about the tape, why don't you just take the back plate off and pull the magnet out from the bottom?:dunno:

i've got nothing to add to this thread otherwise, it's all been said:)
 
Re: Tell me about magnet switching.

super rad stuff said:
if everyone is soooo concerned about the tape, why don't you just take the back plate off and pull the magnet out from the bottom?:dunno:
Click to expand...

The problem only comes up in the first place if the tape is all around the baseplate.
 
Re: Tell me about magnet switching.

uOpt said:
The problem only comes up in the first place if the tape is all around the baseplate.
Click to expand...

But then, few of us see that as a problem. Tape carefully unpeeled goes right back in place; and it's not like it plays any part in a PU's tone. It's there to protect the coils & help avoid microphonics.

Replacement magnets are there for those that want them. No one's obligated to use them, but for most, it improves their tones and saves them a lot of money. When someone doesn't want to spend hundreds of dollars in a PU quest that may or may not be fruitful, magnets are a viable alternative. You have yet to provide a compelling argument not to swap magnets, other than personal preference.
 
Re: Tell me about magnet switching.

An supplementary view on magnet swaps are that the various magnet types affect the inductance of the pickup - hence it affects the resonance peak frequency of the pickup and thus the sound. Lower inductance means higher resonance peak frequency - more treble.

Listing magnet types in increasing inductance (in my experience): Ceramic - A8 - A5 - A4 - A3 - A2
...which corresponds quite well at least with how people describe the treble of the various magnets. (Another factor, the ceramic magnet is not a electric conductor so it differs from the alnicos with respect to eddy currents - also contributing to a different "sound".)

I might add that you should be able to achieve the same tweaking of the resonance peak frequency with adding small capacitors in parallel with the pickup. Adding a resistor in parallel with the pickup lowers the resonant peak height (in effect lowering the treble since the resonance peak often is in the upper mids/treble range), e.g. what is achieved going from a 500k to a 250k volume pot.

I think it is often overlooked that the various electrical wirings in different guitars (as well as the cable connected to the guitar) yield different capacitance making the same pickup sound different in different guitars (in addition to guitar mechanics such as wood type etc.).
 
Re: Tell me about magnet switching.

super rad stuff said:
if everyone is soooo concerned about the tape, why don't you just take the back plate off and pull the magnet out from the bottom?:dunno:
Click to expand...
win.

Ozram said:
An supplementary view on magnet swaps are that the various magnet types affect the inductance of the pickup - hence it affects the resonance peak frequency of the pickup and thus the sound. Lower inductance means higher resonance peak frequency - more treble.

Listing magnet types in increasing inductance (in my experience): Ceramic - A8 - A5 - A4 - A3 - A2
...which corresponds quite well at least with how people describe the treble of the various magnets. (Another factor, the ceramic magnet is not a electric conductor so it differs from the alnicos with respect to eddy currents - also contributing to a different "sound".)

I might add that you should be able to achieve the same tweaking of the resonance peak frequency with adding small capacitors in parallel with the pickup. Adding a resistor in parallel with the pickup lowers the resonant peak height (in effect lowering the treble since the resonance peak often is in the upper mids/treble range), e.g. what is achieved going from a 500k to a 250k volume pot.

I think it is often overlooked that the various electrical wirings in different guitars (as well as the cable connected to the guitar) yield different capacitance making the same pickup sound different in different guitars (in addition to guitar mechanics such as wood type etc.).
Click to expand...

:scratchch
interesting info...
 
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