S
Skarekrough
Guest
What can anyone tell me about this shot of the neck pickup cavity?
Thanks...
Thanks...
Ken
PlayingWithDollsologist
Re: Tenons?
Well...it's red. Made of wood. Four wires, likely two conductor. Looks like Gibson brand pups from my experience. The neck tenon ends at the pup cavity (obviously)...I question the necessity for so many wires running rampant, but I generally would run the wires from the knobs to the switch inside some heat shrink tubig.
Anything you were specifically after?
Well...it's red. Made of wood. Four wires, likely two conductor. Looks like Gibson brand pups from my experience. The neck tenon ends at the pup cavity (obviously)...I question the necessity for so many wires running rampant, but I generally would run the wires from the knobs to the switch inside some heat shrink tubig.
Anything you were specifically after?
S
Skarekrough
Guest
Re: Tenons?
I was just kind of checking about the tenon and if it looked funny at all.
The guitar is my red Greco Les Paul Custom clone. The rosewoods been looking pretty dry lately and I think the last time it got new strings was October.
I figured since I had the strings off of it I might as well take a gander into that pocket and see how everything looks. I was just curious about the tenon more than anything else.
I was just kind of checking about the tenon and if it looked funny at all.
The guitar is my red Greco Les Paul Custom clone. The rosewoods been looking pretty dry lately and I think the last time it got new strings was October.
I figured since I had the strings off of it I might as well take a gander into that pocket and see how everything looks. I was just curious about the tenon more than anything else.
Thames
Great White Malice
Re: Tenons?
No...actually, IT IS a long neck tenon !! :laugh2:
Ok here's the deal :
During the 50-60's, Gibson installed the neck on their guitars, then they routed the pickups cavity. Somewhere in the 70's (correct me if Im wrong), during the Norlin-era, they found out that it was easier and cheaper to route the cavities PRIOR neck attachment. The
A long neck tenon offer more sustain and resonance, as it goes deeper into the body, and is solidly attached (no air). I've seen a "cut-out" picture of a "standard" neck attachment and a long-neck tenon (both from Gibson)... let me tell you that the so-called "standard" was pretty ugly... lots of "air", wood only touching at 50%.. very ugly work for such high-priced instrument.
Gibson still built their standard production guitars that way (short tenon).
Other co's like EDWARDS
can achieve the long-neck tenon w/o the Custom Shop price tag...
:smack:
Benjy_26 said:
No...actually, IT IS a long neck tenon !! :laugh2:
Ok here's the deal :
During the 50-60's, Gibson installed the neck on their guitars, then they routed the pickups cavity. Somewhere in the 70's (correct me if Im wrong), during the Norlin-era, they found out that it was easier and cheaper to route the cavities PRIOR neck attachment. The
A long neck tenon offer more sustain and resonance, as it goes deeper into the body, and is solidly attached (no air). I've seen a "cut-out" picture of a "standard" neck attachment and a long-neck tenon (both from Gibson)... let me tell you that the so-called "standard" was pretty ugly... lots of "air", wood only touching at 50%.. very ugly work for such high-priced instrument.
Gibson still built their standard production guitars that way (short tenon).
Other co's like EDWARDS
can achieve the long-neck tenon w/o the Custom Shop price tag... :smack:
rspst14
Tone Cat
Re: Tenons?
Dammit, I had a long response typed out, then I closed the window by accident. :yell:
To me, that doesn't look like a long tenon, although I sometimes get confused by this. It's possible that I'm totally wrong.
Here's what I do know for sure. There are three tenon designs Gibson has used. Prior to 1969, Gibson used a long neck tenon on their LP's. From 1969 until the mid 70's, they used what is often referred to as a "transition tenon." It was shorter than the long tenon, but longer than the short tenon. In the mid 70's, they switched to the standard shorter tenon, which they continue to use today on most of their models. All SG's and doublecut LP's still use the long tenon, so do some of the reissue and historic models. If I remember correctly, the long tenon extends all the way through the neck pickup route, which is why that pic doesn't look like a long tenon to me. Benjy, your standard most likely has a short tenon. They vary in appearance somewhat, as Gibson isn't real consistent with their neck joints. Some are nicely done, others are very sloppy.
One thing I do know, don't go over to the LP forums and ask these questions. People who paid $2000 for their LP's don't like to hear that they bought a guitar with a poor neck joint design, so they will tell you the short tenon is just as good as the long one. Then they will accuse you of being an Indonesian guy who's asking about Les Paul features so that you can fraudulently pass off Norlin LP's as '68 models. At least, that was my experience when dealing with that forum.
Ryan
Dammit, I had a long response typed out, then I closed the window by accident. :yell:
To me, that doesn't look like a long tenon, although I sometimes get confused by this. It's possible that I'm totally wrong.
Here's what I do know for sure. There are three tenon designs Gibson has used. Prior to 1969, Gibson used a long neck tenon on their LP's. From 1969 until the mid 70's, they used what is often referred to as a "transition tenon." It was shorter than the long tenon, but longer than the short tenon. In the mid 70's, they switched to the standard shorter tenon, which they continue to use today on most of their models. All SG's and doublecut LP's still use the long tenon, so do some of the reissue and historic models. If I remember correctly, the long tenon extends all the way through the neck pickup route, which is why that pic doesn't look like a long tenon to me. Benjy, your standard most likely has a short tenon. They vary in appearance somewhat, as Gibson isn't real consistent with their neck joints. Some are nicely done, others are very sloppy.
One thing I do know, don't go over to the LP forums and ask these questions. People who paid $2000 for their LP's don't like to hear that they bought a guitar with a poor neck joint design, so they will tell you the short tenon is just as good as the long one. Then they will accuse you of being an Indonesian guy who's asking about Les Paul features so that you can fraudulently pass off Norlin LP's as '68 models. At least, that was my experience when dealing with that forum.
Ryan
jmh151
Active member
Re: Tenons?
Your guitar has the long neck tenon found on Gibson Historic guitars, and many clones. Even the Epiphone Elitist Les Pauls have the long neck tenon. The long is supposed to be better, though I don't see how that little 1/2" long, 1/4" think extension under the pickup makes that much of a difference.
There's a guitar maker in Russia, Shamray, that makes Les Paul clones. You can go on his site and there's pics of construction techniques.
Your guitar has the long neck tenon found on Gibson Historic guitars, and many clones. Even the Epiphone Elitist Les Pauls have the long neck tenon. The long is supposed to be better, though I don't see how that little 1/2" long, 1/4" think extension under the pickup makes that much of a difference.
There's a guitar maker in Russia, Shamray, that makes Les Paul clones. You can go on his site and there's pics of construction techniques.
rspst14
Tone Cat
Re: Tenons?
Did anyone ever see that pic that was up on the Gibson custom shop site a while back? It compared the long and short tenon, and showed each of them up close. There was so much slop in the short tenon neck joint that Gibson had to take the picture down due to the outrage it caused among the Les Paul faithful. I don't necessarily think the short tenon is a bad design...when it's done right anyway. But I do think the longer tenon is superior, and should be standard on every guitar Gibson makes. It just makes sense from a physics standpoint that better coupling between parts = better acoustic resonance and sustain.
Ryan
Did anyone ever see that pic that was up on the Gibson custom shop site a while back? It compared the long and short tenon, and showed each of them up close. There was so much slop in the short tenon neck joint that Gibson had to take the picture down due to the outrage it caused among the Les Paul faithful. I don't necessarily think the short tenon is a bad design...when it's done right anyway. But I do think the longer tenon is superior, and should be standard on every guitar Gibson makes. It just makes sense from a physics standpoint that better coupling between parts = better acoustic resonance and sustain.
Ryan
rspst14
Tone Cat
Re: Tenons?
Yeah, SG's really benefit from the longer tenon due to the extreme double cutaway. There's really not much in the way of side support for the neck, so the long tenon is almost a necessity.
I should add that certain copies also have long tenons. Personally, I think Hamer has a much better system than Gibson, as the dovetail joint is hand-fitted to perfection, and it's designed to be 40% bigger than the standard Gibson joint.
Ryan
big_black said:
Yeah, SG's really benefit from the longer tenon due to the extreme double cutaway. There's really not much in the way of side support for the neck, so the long tenon is almost a necessity.
I should add that certain copies also have long tenons. Personally, I think Hamer has a much better system than Gibson, as the dovetail joint is hand-fitted to perfection, and it's designed to be 40% bigger than the standard Gibson joint.
Ryan
Thames
Great White Malice
Re: Tenons?
Yeah, that's what Im refering too. The short tenon cut-out was a real poor job on this one, I understand why they removed the picture. I only hope its not the same crappy job on every Standards.
I do think it makes a real diff too, more than a light vs heavy weight tailpiece
rspst14 said:
Yeah, that's what Im refering too. The short tenon cut-out was a real poor job on this one, I understand why they removed the picture. I only hope its not the same crappy job on every Standards.
I do think it makes a real diff too, more than a light vs heavy weight tailpiece
S
Skarekrough
Guest
Re: Tenons?
Wow....that IS a long tenon? Very cool!
Both my Grecos have those! Too cool!
I'm laughing my butt off over this because for the price of the two Grecos put together I'd of been shy what a new Les Paul Studio costs!
BTW.....here's a pic of both Grecos:
Wow....that IS a long tenon? Very cool!
Both my Grecos have those! Too cool!
I'm laughing my butt off over this because for the price of the two Grecos put together I'd of been shy what a new Les Paul Studio costs!
BTW.....here's a pic of both Grecos:
big_black
Opaqueologist
Re: Tenons?
I guess it wouldn't matter what kind of tenon my SG has since it doesn't have a bridge pickup route. It's got 24 frets so I assume the neck tenon goes in at least as far as the fretboard end. I like this thing more and more everyday. There's nuthin' like sweet sustaining mahogany to churn my butter!.
I guess it wouldn't matter what kind of tenon my SG has since it doesn't have a bridge pickup route. It's got 24 frets so I assume the neck tenon goes in at least as far as the fretboard end. I like this thing more and more everyday. There's nuthin' like sweet sustaining mahogany to churn my butter!.
rspst14
Tone Cat
Re: Tenons?
I've noticed that too, in the pics I've seen. When I was changing pickups in my Hamer, I had to look very closely to even see the dovetial joint. The fit was so perfect that I could barely tell where the neck ended and the body began. I realize that Hamer is a smaller company who only completes three guitars a day, but I can't understand why Gibson doesn't put more effort into such a critical design aspect.
Ryan
JohnJohn said:
I've noticed that too, in the pics I've seen. When I was changing pickups in my Hamer, I had to look very closely to even see the dovetial joint. The fit was so perfect that I could barely tell where the neck ended and the body began. I realize that Hamer is a smaller company who only completes three guitars a day, but I can't understand why Gibson doesn't put more effort into such a critical design aspect.
Ryan
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