Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

[Phantasmagoria]

First ever try with my new iKey Audio HDR7 handheld field recorder that came in this morning ..using the onboard condenser mics, placed 6 inches or so away from the grill, midway between the speaker centre & the edge:

Jackson Dinky w/ Lace Deathbucker in the bridge:




Just messing around/mindless wankery, don't judge my playing lol.

The levels are clipping a bit/too high, especially on the random chugs at the end. (had the tone dialed in for lead ...I like a fat dark tone..) It's just the raw clip as recorded - start to finish. No reverb/effects/editing/tracking/NR...nothing. I think the placement was off by a bit, it (recorder) needed to come closer to the speaker centre & the grill ...but otherwise it's not too shabby for a first go I'm going to give it another shot when I get some new batteries (it eats them alive)..I could end up doing some cool stuff with this thing, it definately has the potential for some really good sounding recordings :eyecrazy:



Another short clip that I did just a while later...

Plugged into my Raven West maple neck-through guitar for this one (Dean DMT Baker Act bridge) ...had the levels set a bit lower, using just one (left) of the two built in condenser mics....it's brighter/clearer but I still had it placed too far I think...

 

[CTN]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

1st clip definitely sounds fat and dark...really goes whoomp whoomp on some of those chugs instead of Chug chug.

It doesn't look like the levels are too high...the waveform isn't clipping...

The 2nd clip sounds better, but it's still fat and dark and occupying much of the space that would ordinarily be occupied by a bass guitar in a full band. Get some mids and highs back into your tone dude!

 

[P.A.Foholic]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

Yeah, that's really fat & warm tone. I'm with CTN here. You can get really fat sound by cranking the mids but reducing the highs. But you really need to cut the bass in that situation too. I've found this good: Cut the bass, crank the mids, adjust treble to taste and the biggest part... is to play with little gain as possible =)

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

@Convoys: True man, the bass is excessive but thats because I have it dialed in that way strictly for lead doodling. Personally, I like fat dark-ish lead tones and this amp manages to do them pretty well without sounding dull or losing attack & note definition. I only played a few chords/chugs to see how the recorder handled the extra bass. If you noticed, the volume sort of dips after the first chug hits and what follows is some kind of compression that lowers the volume & muddies things up...if it's not clipping then I think I need to reduce input gain or back it away more (or bring it closer?) or something because that's not how it sounded in the room when I started the chugging



@PA Folic...nice song man, very well done...but it's a full mix/master with backing tracks/bass/Drums etc and it's too modern-sounding (tonewise) for my taste ...I do prefer to relax my mids a bit (not excessively..but between say 10 & 1-2 o'clock), it just sounds more open and dark to me that way. Most of my favourite tones are from (some of the more obscure) 80's metal bands or late 80's/early 90's death metal/doom etc. The clips I recorded up there sound too dark even for my taste...but I think there's some blurring of detail/loss of treble going on ...might have to do with the way I'm positioning the recorder or setting the input/gain levels. I'm sure of it since the music I recorded off my stereo had the same problem.. I'm going to experiment with things a bit over the next few days...anyone have any tips regarding anything technical, to do with mic positioning etc...anything like that would be most welcome

 

[P.A.Foholic]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

@PA Folic...nice song man, very well done...but it's a full mix/master with backing tracks/bass/Drums etc and it's too modern-sounding (tonewise) for my taste ...I do prefer to relax my mids a bit (not excessively..but between say 10 & 1-2 o'clock), it just sounds more open and dark to me that way. Most of my favourite tones are from (some of the more obscure) 80's metal bands or late 80's/early 90's death metal/doom etc. The clips I recorded up there sound too dark even for my taste...but I think there's some blurring of detail/loss of treble going on ...might have to do with the way I'm positioning the recorder or setting the input/gain levels. I'm sure of it since the music I recorded off my stereo had the same problem.. I'm going to experiment with things a bit over the next few days...anyone have any tips regarding anything technical, to do with mic positioning etc...anything like that would be most welcome

Thanks, man! That thing is not made with the sound I described, haha. I've made few presets that sound nothing like my modern takes. I too love 80's metal (even my surname means 80's era in Finnish, haha) and have made many thrash/hard rock presets that are fat and warm. I just haven't made any clips with those sounds, yet

If you want more of a warm tone, move the mic away from the center of the cone. 45 degrees is quite a good placement I've found (and quite standard?). Takes away excessive treble. But all in all your best bet is to trust your ears. Record many clips and tweak tweak tweak

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

haha, sorry, I did'nt realise that clip was in your sig..

yeah, I'm thinking of something vaguely like this..a kind of "updated" 80's metal sound...




Anyway, I'm going to try it out with different settings and move it around a bit...let's see how I can get it to sound after a while..thanks for for the tips man

 

[P.A.Foholic]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

Nice! Sounds like a Super Distortion to me, that clip I mean

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

Yeah it's fat, pretty open and dark...my guess is if I just push the mids & treble up slightly, back the bass off by a hair ...get a little more compression going & try and move the mic around a bit till I find the sweet spot, that should get me reasonably close to that rhythm sound up there...

As for the lead tone, I'm pretty happy with the way it sounds already...full & meaty

 

[CTN]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

haha, sorry, I did'nt realise that clip was in your sig..

yeah, I'm thinking of something vaguely like this..a kind of "updated" 80's metal sound...




Anyway, I'm going to try it out with different settings and move it around a bit...let's see how I can get it to sound after a while..thanks for for the tips man

hehe, I hear lots of mids and a decent amount of highs in that guitar sound. Almost all the low end is coming from the bass! Also not much gain at all...but the layering of guitar tracks makes it sound thicker and more saturated than it actually is.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

You think so? ...The guitar sounds way up in front to me...!?


But then I've never done a decent complete song/demo recording in my life... just can't get the hang of it....

 

[CTN]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

it sounds in front cuz there's lots of mids! the mids are where the bulk of the guitar's natural frequencies lie!

 

[P.A.Foholic]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

it sounds in front cuz there's lots of mids! the mids are where the bulk of the guitar's natural frequencies lie!

Yeah, it's all about mids, little gain and multilayering.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

haha...ok...the mids are coming up then...

The truth is I play around with my settings all day long...mids up, mids down, treble up (a bit..lol), down, bass up down etc...who does'nt, right? And I've often got tones like the one in the clip (which , again, is just one of the many kinds of tones I like) , I just need to be able to make that translate to my recordings...

 

[CTN]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

Yeah often what you think sounds good to your ear will not translate to the same thing once recorded.

It takes a bit of experimentation and trial and error to figure out what tone works well for recording vs. playing in your bedroom vs. playing live

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

Very true, I have the bedroom thing nailed lol ...and I often get compliments for my live tone (mids way up..)...but when it comes to recording, somehow, I've never had much luck.

This little recorder does sound pretty faithful to the sound in the room for the most part...closer than I've got with any device before, there's a minute loss of treble, and that weird compression on the chugs..but I think that's down to the (mic) placement...or maybe levels...there's also a 'high' and 'low' input gain switch that I had set to "high" ...maybe I need to try "low" next time?

 

[CTN]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

First find how how loud of a signal your recorder mic can handle, if it's high ie 130+db then you should have no problem putting it right up on your speaker's grille cloth. Part of the reason the low end is going WHOOMP on the chugs is cuz of the air movement. Putting the mic right up infront of the speaker will place it out of the way of the bass frequency soundwaves. It'll also give you a sharper, clearer more "in your face" midrange presence, especially if it's closer to the dustcap as opposed to halfway between the cap and the edge of the speaker.

The other part of the reason is that you simply have too much low end lol

I thing the levels are fine, seeing as it isn't clipping, you can experiment with the input levels if you want but I don't think you need to, unless you want to crank your amp, then use the low input. I also don't think you have too much gain actually. Just turn down the bass, and turn up the mids and treble so that the guitar's sound can shine through!

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

Wow...that's exactly the sort of thing that will really come in handy..thanks man

I'll keep that stuff in mind next time.


Apparently, this thing will only handle upto 94db SPL....I'll try and work around that, or maybe get an instrument mic later..

 

[CTN]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

that should be fine to put up on the grille cloth as long as it's not toooooo loud.

look up some vids on youtube about guitar cab micing. you'll get an idea of how different micing positions will sound. For high gain guitars, because there's so much compression from the distortion and since it's a very saturated sound with relatively little dynamics, sticking a mic close to the dust cap is vital to accentuate the midrange, especially upper mids, which helps that saturated sound cut through in a mix (whether live or recorded).

If you want less articulation and a more even sound you can move it further out or angle it.

might be a good idea to spend some time recording quick riffs, then adjusting, then re-recording, then re-adjusting and repeat that until you get a tone you're happy with.

 

[P.A.Foholic]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

One point to add (sry if it was mentioned already):

Very often the guitar/bass tracks are horrible sounding when played alone from recordings. But the magic happens when every sound compliments each other. That'll make the recording sound great even if the single sounds aren't that good.

might be a good idea to spend some time recording quick riffs, then adjusting, then re-recording, then re-adjusting and repeat that until you get a tone you're happy with.

Yeah, experimenting and tweaking is necessary. Your ears will learn from that a lot too

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Testing how my new digital handheld recorder records my high gain tube amp...

Cool, thanks again guys...yeah sometimes things sound way better in a mix than they do on their own, I'm going to look at some of those you tube video's...it never even struck me to look on there for some reason..lol ...I remember googling some stuff but it was'nt very specific

This is what it looks like so the mics are angled in towards each other already ... it kind of complicates things as far as angling the unit like I would angle an instrument microphone...guess I just need to point that head-on at the dustcap like a normal mic...