THAT Tone!!

[gordon_39422]

Okay, now that I have your attention, hear me out......Everyone is in search of this mysterious tone that each has playing in their head.... I shared the same quest, but have finally had a revelation.....

The bass guitar can really freakin carry the low end.... In fact, it can overpower the low end that so many people seek in there tone. The end result is that the guitar has a bright sound and the bass has the low tones.... Where are the mids? I have found the perfect tone in my house playing alone, and then taken my system to the stage with the band..... The end result was not that great. We had to tweak my amp so that my mids punched through when micing the speakers..... Yeah when I was jamming, I could hear the same tone, but when we all played together, the tone was lost in the mix..... I can assure you it was not the configuration of the soundboard, we spent hours on this dillema. The end result was that I raised the mids higher that I like them at home. I went to the front of house to hear the result with occupants in the club while I played through wireless and TAh-DAh!!!!! The band had a full range sound that was sonically even. I even like the way my guitar blended in the mix without getting lost. It was a very good mix!! When I got home around 0500hrs Sunday morning, I just set my gear in the front door since my wife was not home.... and went to bed... I finally reconnected all my gear after work today and the tone was horrible, but I could recognize that it was the same tone I had Saturday night.......

I have been using the same principle (as have all recording engineers) for years..... after i set my amp to the correct tone and make a recording, the playback sounds xxxxxxx (insert terms like weak, thin, bright, muddy, etc)..... during the mastering I tweak the eq to get the sonic results I seek, and voilla!!! The tone I want is now present! The same theory applied onstage...

The point is.... buyer beware...... the tone you get in your bedroom is not the same settings you will need to use onsatge if you want the same tones from the bedroom.

I know that this all may seem like common sense, but apparently it isnt, because I keep seeing the same threads about searching for a specific tone. The problem is when you add another medium such as a soundboard or recording system, the game changes...... So, keep this in mind as you search for THAT tone!

 

[echofinger]

Re: THAT Tone!!

Nice post.

I am recording another 6 song demo with my band at the moment, and the bass player and I were just discussing what you posted here.

I have made several recordings with him playing bass over the years, and he remarked that he thought we finally did it. Each of us had a tone that complemented our mix, and still sounded good alone.

And what you said here applies to the drummer and singer also. For instance, when we play live, I roll back the highs just a tad on my amp, because it's right there where the vocalist screams. And a smart drummer finds his place in the E.Q. also, in particular his bass drum and snare need to have their own niche in the E.Q.

And just to add to your post... I think a lot of guitarists hear a guitar sound they like on an album, and forget that the bass player is partially responsible for what they are listening to...

This is the only explanation I have for the ridiculous "low end boost" on whatever the latest Marshall amp is. (I forget the name of it.) That thing is just retarded, there isn't a bass rig in the world that can compete with it. It makes your guitar sound awesome when you play alone, but in a band it just smokes the bass player.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: THAT Tone!!

In recent years, I've become more of a fan of EL-34 amps, simply because they push richer mids. If I listen to recordings I've made with 6L6 amps and compare them to ones made with EL-34 amps, the british amps sit in the mix better IMO.

One thing that drives me crazy is that all the modern stereos have preset EQ's or don't have a midrange control. Since my ears are tuned enough to mix on a mixing board, I constantly want to re-EQ every everything I hear on my car stereo, since it's always too heavy in the bass and treble and too hollow in the mids, which is where the guitars always sit.

 

[Dodger]

Re: THAT Tone!!

Good post.

I agree that some of those awesome tones you hear on the recordings are often so huge thanks to the bass player and guitarists hear that and want that tone not realizing that the bass player is the one creating all the thundering bass which makes it oh so sweet. Like Gearjoneser to a degree i like to have lots and lots of mids in my sound but not in a nasly honky way it gives you a full and present tone so i enjoy it when im alone but it all works out when playing with a band.

 

[Thames]

Re: THAT Tone!!

+1 to Jonezy for that EL34/6L6 comparison.
I much prefer EL34s for that matter.

Gordon, having known that when I was younger, our band would have sounded MUCH better... scooped mids and boosted lows and highs... PURE MUD each gig!
:smoker:

Nice avatar btw.... nicer curves than a KT66 :naughty:

 

[tone?]

Re: THAT Tone!!

totally good Post.


yeah i agree what is this bass boost thing? its kinda like the 'hip hop' button on your amp! silly man.
people totally forget i think that there is a bass player as well in the band that contributes to what they hear on the cd.
i think the HiFi approach is goofy to amps. especially the scooped thing. i think that even in the more heavy bands they had alot of bass from the mix and not from the guitar.
THE guiitar is A MIDRANGE INSTRUMENT GUYS!

you think that these people maybe are bass players trapped in a guitar players body??!

it like putting a bass boost on a clarinet or trumpet!

 

[DirrtyCraig]

Re: THAT Tone!!

I also found this out years ago. When I was about 21 I played with another older and more experienced guitarist who always was more upfront in the mix even if my stage volume was louder. The scooped mids thing just doesn't work in a live environment. when upping the mids and presence I found that what seemed to be a harsher tone sitting in front of the cab, sounded much better through the mains.

Now, for every show I adjust my tube power amp resonance and presence to the room. If your tube amp has these in the power section I've found it to be very useful rather than re-EQ'ing your entire sound.