The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

[Nuts]

Hello there,
I want to get the most sounds possibilities I can, from a Les Paul, using 4 push-pull pots.
Looking at older posts, I've found many threads about the Jimmy Page wiring, but there are 2 kinds of diagrams, and I don't know which one is better and why.
And some people wrote that on some configurations you get no sound at all, so it seems like a waste.
Is there a better wiring than Jimmy Page's ? by better I mean, more options in sound.
I have this idea about wiring in similar way to Jimmy Page style, but making the bridge volume pot split both pickups, and the neck volume pot switch between series and parallel.
Is it possible ?
Thanks.

 

[Oinkus]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

Here is a huge resource on all things JP wiring http://tonefiend.com/the-pagey-project-resource-page/

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

For what is worth, Schecter Guitar Research (as was) employed the four push-pull pot wiring harness well before Page adopted it.

 

[DreX]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

I want to get the most sounds possibilities I can, from a Les Paul, using 4 push-pull pots.

If getting as many sounds as you can trumps the 4 push/pull requirements, I have some ideas for you. I wired my Les Paul likes this,

Knob 1: 500k push pull, master volume, pull to put neck PU out of phase

Knob 2: Fender TBX model, turns one way for bass, turn the other way for treble

Knob 3: 100k dual gang pot, "spin-a-split", variably splits both humbuckers at once

Knob 4: 6 way dial to choose between six caps for the bass-half of the Fender TBX tone knob, with the values .047, .022, .010, .006, .003, .001

I prefer this over the phasing and series parallel options because to my ears the out of phase tones are hard to like and hard to make use of. Running too pickups in series with each other ends up being too loud and too dark while not sounding much different or better than the typical parallel operation. I like switching a single humbucker between series and parallel, but the spin a split affords more variety between the humbucker and single coil tone, especially with a lower value splitting pot.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

I'm a fan of the Page wiring, but the real Page wiring with 4 DPDT switches and 2 SPDT switches. There's no 'best' because a complex/flexible set of switches still might not give you the sounds that you need for the music you play, or may not be laid out in a way that's easy for you to use.

A set of Triple-Shot pickup rings might give you the most sounds, but that may not be the easiest to use during a song. What's best will depend on if you need to switch while the music is playing, or if you are ok with setting up a sound before a song starts.

 

[Securb]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

Nuts that is an interesting endeavor you are embarking on I would need more information before helping you out. When you say Les Paul are we talking about a Gibson Les Paul or an Epiphone. Also what kind of pickups are you using? Are they 2 connector or 4 connector? I am guessing 4 but I don't want to take anything for granted.

There are all kinds of way to get this done some are better than others. For example adding 6 capacitors is probably overkill for what you are trying to accomplish. What is your end game? What are you trying to get accomplished at the end of the day. Is there a particular tone you are chasing?

 

[blueman335]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

Knob 3: 100k dual gang pot, "spin-a-split", variably splits both humbuckers at once

Knob 4: 6 way dial to choose between six caps for the bass-half of the Fender TBX tone knob, with the values .047, .022, .010, .006, .003, .001

I prefer this over the phasing and series parallel options because to my ears the out of phase tones are hard to like and hard to make use of. Running too pickups in series with each other ends up being too loud and too dark while not sounding much different or better than the typical parallel operation. I like switching a single humbucker between series and parallel, but the spin a split affords more variety between the humbucker and single coil tone, especially with a lower value splitting pot.

That's what the Page system needs: spin-a-split, at least on the neck PU. Far better than mere coil cut.

Two HB's linked in parallel are warm, but it's useable when the neck PU is in coil cut mode. Likewise phase is also a viable option when the PU's are linked in series (and aren't so weak).

When you wire the bridge PU in the traditional Page way, when it's in coil cut mode, lifting the phase push-pull changes the coil that's active. This opens up a new option: when you have the toggle in the middle position (both PU's on) and both are in coil cut, you can pair up the neck screw coil and the bridge slug coil, which gives you a 'virtual' HB, like a SSS Strat in positions 2 and 4.

 

[Nuts]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

I have a Gibson Les Paul Studio, with Seymour Duncan Custom Custom in the bridge, and Pearly Gates in the neck, they both have 4 conductors.
Right now I have triple shot installed, and I like the extra sounds I can get, but sometimes when I play 'tapping', my right hand touches the switches and I accidentally change the sound.
So I want to remove it, and put push-pull pots instead, and I'm just trying to get the most out of them.
There isn't really a particular tone I'm chasing, the 'out of phase' sounded nice is some youtube videos I watched though.

It's the first time I hear about the Fender TBX model and the capacitors switcher, so I don't know anything about it.
Oh and by the way, thank you guys.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

A short-term fix might be to flip the triple shots to the other side of the pick up, if that would help.

 

[Securb]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

It's the first time I hear about the Fender TBX model and the capacitors switcher, so I don't know anything about it.
Oh and by the way, thank you guys.

It is a long way to go to get a cap switcher. ToneStyler has a drop in tone knob that does just that. I have on in my Ibanez the thing is fantastic.

http://www.stellartone.com/Page.asp?NavID=50

 

[DreX]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

It's the first time I hear about the Fender TBX model and the capacitors switcher, so I don't know anything about it.
Oh and by the way, thank you guys.

The TBX mod is this, it gives you bass in one direction and treble in the other, a power mod if ever there was one:

what I do beyond that though is replace the .047 uF cap with the selector shown below, that just lets you pick between a hand full of caps:

The nice thing about having both a treble-retaining tone knob, as a well as a spin a split knob, is that both are treble knobs, but they retain different frequency ranges of treble. The spin a split will kill bass at the same time as moving the peak resonance upwards, so that actually changes the voice of the pickup and makes it single coil. The cap based treble knob in the TBX mod, on the other hand, keeps the peak resonance right where it's at while negating bass frequencies, so the pickups sounds the same, just less flabby in bottom. So they serve two difference purposes, the spin a split turns your Les Paul into a Strat, the TBX treble keeps it a Les Paul, but tightens the bass up, which makes the overdrive tone more crunchy and clear.

You might not want to go this route, but I like to take the opportunity to spread awareness about bass attenuation and spin a split, I think both are overlooked in favor of awful sounding phase mods.

It is a long way to go to get a cap switcher. ToneStyler has a drop in tone knob that does just that. I have on in my Ibanez the thing is fantastic.

I don't mind the tone styler, it's just that I can make one for a fraction of the cost and they sort of fun to make.

 

[hermetico]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

Hello there,
I want to get the most sounds possibilities I can, from a Les Paul, using 4 push-pull pots.
Looking at older posts, I've found many threads about the Jimmy Page wiring, but there are 2 kinds of diagrams, and I don't know which one is better and why.
And some people wrote that on some configurations you get no sound at all, so it seems like a waste.
Is there a better wiring than Jimmy Page's ? by better I mean, more options in sound.
I have this idea about wiring in similar way to Jimmy Page style, but making the bridge volume pot split both pickups, and the neck volume pot switch between series and parallel.
Is it possible ?
Thanks.

This is what I use: http://hermeticoguitar.blogspot.com.es/2012/12/wiring-diagram-hermeticos-lp-exchanger.html
1 more combo than JP's wiring, easier to mental map. Gets rid off JPs wiring blackouts.

Each combo has its use under certain circumstances but, the whole set is a tad output-unbalanced (as in JP's).
To be honest, to split one or the other lug for humbuckers with twin coils makes negligible difference and, doesn't worth the effort.
Even that many people hates OOP, it has its use. In clean, the two HB OOP gives you that Peter Green's tone (also heard to Gary Moore). Under gain, with both split and in series or, one hb and the other split, you can cut the mix like a knife (also, the blend of individual volumes give you several OOP nuances).

Which are my preferred?.
Of course, standard LP combos (neck humbucker, both humbuckers in parallel, bridge humbucker)
One humbucker, the other split, in parallel or series (and even, OOP and series under gain).
Both split to outer coils in parallel (for tele-alike tones).

Two humbuckers in series can be too much power and, the result can sound massive, dark and undefined but, if you wanted a flamethrower, there it is.
Series strengths any weak combination (as split OOP).

Think that this kind of wiring projects are suitable for vintage and vintage-hot output pickups (two hb in series makes only sense for low output humbuckers).
To split to one or the other coil makes sense with humbuckers without twin coils (so, barely none). And, probably, a spin-split gives you some notch hb-split tones that open more your tonal palette.

 

[Securb]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

Here is a pic of the Stellatone Tone Styler installed. It is the cream knob at the bottom/middle of the picture.

 

[Oinkus]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

I want one of those for my 335 soooooo bad !

 

[DreX]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

Here is a DIY tone styler / veratone type thing. Total parts cost is about $5, if you get a pack of two more selectors, and twenty or more caps, in a single order. Buying individual components will cost a little more, and isn't really worth doing. It will then cost maybe $10 to $15 for a single DIY tone styler, so I just buy in bulk and keep the leftover parts on hand. They take up very little space, anyway.

 

[uOpt]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

If you are looking for something to do with a turning thing I would put a LCR network like Bill Lawrence' Q-Filter.

If you are looking for things to do with 4 switches I'd go split/split/pickups-in-series/out-of-phase. There are few things better than subtracting half an out of phase neck pickup from a bridge pickup while they are in series.

 

[Nuts]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

I'm used to the old Les Paul regular tone control knobs already, so I don't think I change it.

What do you think about taking the Jimmy Page (Schecter's) wiring, but doing both pickups splitting in 1 DPDT switch.
So by pulling, lets say, the bridge volume knob, I'm splitting both neck and bridge pickups.
And if I also get rid of the 'pickups-in-series' option, the one that puts bridge and neck pickups in series together, which some people here found useless.
I will get 2 free DPDT switches.
is it possible to make them switch between parallel and series ?

let me clear this up.
Push/pull controls:

Jimmy's way-
Bridge Volume: splits bridge pickup
Neck Volume: splits neck pickup
Bridge Tone: puts bridge & neck pickups out of phase with each other
Neck: Tone: puts bridge & neck pickups in series together

My way-
Bridge Volume: splits bridge & neck pickups
Neck Volume: puts bridge & neck pickups out of phase with each other
Bridge Tone: bridge in parallel
Neck: Tone: neck in parallel

Will it work ? or my guitar will expolde ?:scared:

 

[Securb]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

I'm used to the old Les Paul regular tone control knobs already, so I don't think I change it.

What do you think about taking the Jimmy Page (Schecter's) wiring, but doing both pickups splitting in 1 DPDT switch.
So by pulling, lets say, the bridge volume knob, I'm splitting both neck and bridge pickups.
And if I also get rid of the 'pickups-in-series' option, the one that puts bridge and neck pickups in series together, which some people here found useless.
I will get 2 free DPDT switches.
is it possible to make them switch between parallel and series ?

let me clear this up.
Push/pull controls:

Jimmy's way-
Bridge Volume: splits bridge pickup
Neck Volume: splits neck pickup
Bridge Tone: puts bridge & neck pickups out of phase with each other
Neck: Tone: puts bridge & neck pickups in series together

My way-
Bridge Volume: splits bridge & neck pickups
Neck Volume: puts bridge & neck pickups out of phase with each other
Bridge Tone: bridge in parallel
Neck: Tone: neck in parallel

Will it work ? or my guitar will expolde ?:scared:

Yes that is possible. And it will work. My only concern is that is a ton of work to get a minor variation of tone. You will not get one guitar to sound like every guitar. I do not think the settings you are looking for are going to be as drastic as you are hoping they will be. Once again what are you trying to get done?

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

I'm used to the old Les Paul regular tone control knobs already, so I don't think I change it.

What do you think about taking the Jimmy Page (Schecter's) wiring, but doing both pickups splitting in 1 DPDT switch.
So by pulling, lets say, the bridge volume knob, I'm splitting both neck and bridge pickups.
And if I also get rid of the 'pickups-in-series' option, the one that puts bridge and neck pickups in series together, which some people here found useless.
I will get 2 free DPDT switches.
is it possible to make them switch between parallel and series ?

let me clear this up.
Push/pull controls:

Jimmy's way-
Bridge Volume: splits bridge pickup
Neck Volume: splits neck pickup
Bridge Tone: puts bridge & neck pickups out of phase with each other
Neck: Tone: puts bridge & neck pickups in series together

My way-
Bridge Volume: splits bridge & neck pickups
Neck Volume: puts bridge & neck pickups out of phase with each other
Bridge Tone: bridge in parallel
Neck: Tone: neck in parallel

Will it work ? or my guitar will expolde ?:scared:

I just did the real Jimmy Page wiring in my SG, albeit with some mods to make it easier to use (namely I put the coil splits out on the pickguard rather than back on the pots.) In my experience, I did not get a significant variance in output, even with pickups in series or splitting to single coil. There was some slight shift in levels, but it was totally manageable. But it bought me a great variety of tones that I can use to overcome situations where I have to play through someone else's amp or in a venue through a board I'm not familiar with, etc. That's the only reason I go for all those additional tones: is to get around situations where I don't get to use my own rig and control the sound. Having the Page wiring allows me to still sound like myself in situations where it's not my rig.

 

[uOpt]

Re: The best Les Paul wiring, using 4 push-pull pots.

I'm used to the old Les Paul regular tone control knobs already, so I don't think I change it.

What do you think about taking the Jimmy Page (Schecter's) wiring, but doing both pickups splitting in 1 DPDT switch.
So by pulling, lets say, the bridge volume knob, I'm splitting both neck and bridge pickups.
And if I also get rid of the 'pickups-in-series' option, the one that puts bridge and neck pickups in series together, which some people here found useless.

You completely missed my point. In-series is useless alone but if you combine in-series (which darkens) with out-of-phase (which brightens) you get a usable thing. One that can sound great. Especially if you subtract only half a neck pickup. That can give you a roar for a distorted sound you cannot get otherwise, not even remotely.