The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

[Securb]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

I would love to get those hooked up to a meter. I would bet big money those pickups are all the same wind and magnets with different packaging. I am also willing to bet they all have the same cheap ceramic magnets.

Some of the fakes are horrible like these but the ones masta' c posted are pretty damn close. These are just horrible fakes.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

A year or so back I saw the double slug Duncan's on Aliexpress
But yeah recently I've been seeing these

 

[Aceman]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

Holy *&^%!!!!!

Um, yeah - I have a problem with those. Can't get Gibsons without knowing they are not real. But these???? Hell - all kinds of p[eople could end up with this BS....
- I buy a bunch
- Start selling to Mom/Pop as an "Authorized" dealer...then disappear. Or sell on-line and claim a guy said he was authorized, etc...


Two comments - Look is one thing, but how do they sound in a blind test against the real thing?

Next - I'd simply resort to violence when I found out who did this. Brutally abuse the individual who decided to do this, maim and disfigure them, leave hints like:

"He THOUGHT he could fake a Distortion. Now his face is distorted."
"Maybe coming close to seeing the actually Pearly Gates will help him see the error of his ways."
"Who knew that 59 was the number of times you could hit someones hand with a hammer before it was unrecognizable, not a year?"

You simply can-not-stop this. China has FU size, mass, and power.

 

[Mincer]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

BTW, I did notify HQ. But I don't know what kind of reach legal protection has in the Far East.

 

[Securb]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

BTW, I did notify HQ. But I don't know what kind of reach legal protection has in the Far East.

Very little when it comes to China. We in the software game have been getting screwed over our IP for years. Sadly you can only grin and bear it.

 

[Mincer]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

Very little when it comes to China. We in the software game have been getting screwed over our IP for years. Sadly you can only grin and bear it.

There might be some ability to go after people in the US who say they are dealers and not on the Authorized List. But my guess is that tracking those people down (especially as this trickles into the US more and more) will be a full time job.

 

[nexion218]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

There might be some ability to go after people in the US who say they are dealers and not on the Authorized List. But my guess is that tracking those people down (especially as this trickles into the US more and more) will be a full time job.

And would it have appropriate returns? Wouldn't it be easier to ID the actual SD PUPs with some sort of hologram, RFID, watermark, serialnumber database etc. that way making the genuine stuff easily identifiable? Make a statement to customers that "hey, if this and this is not present on your product, then we're sorry to tell you, but you've been screwed". That's the part a company can control I think. You cannot control what others do. There will always be a Ling Ling or Punjabi left somewhere winding fake SD/EMG/DiCaprio P ) PUPs. I'd let them do it and make sure that the genuine product I make is clearly identifiable. That way the company can stand behind it's own product and will not be held accountable for sg that it has nothing to do with. Or am I obersimplyfing this?

 

[Ascension]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

Even a small amount trickling into the West isn't a good thing. I can see how this can cause some problems, especially if they come here or call Duncan for help with their fake pickups that don't work right.

As many of you here know I have worked off and on with Pawn Shops for years. Most have no clue just how bad the problems with fakes really are unless you see it first hand. AMAZING what they are faking now and 90% of it all is coming from China. It's absolutely devastating to US companies when this is happening with their products. Not only does it cost them sales but it kills a companies reputation when a bunch of folks buy what they think is a real product get a fake that is substandard and then talk about the poor quality of that product.
Don't want to get all into the political but will say this I support ANYTHING and ANYONE that will stop this COLD and would like to see those who are doing it pay a BIG price for this!!
Biggest thing we can do is if we see this REPORT IT and lets all do our part to put a stop to this BS!!

 

[orpheo]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

The fact that fakes are getting harder to distinguish from real goods, but only cost a fraction of the price of the original is a testiment to something many already believe: that "US-made" goods are overpriced, overhyped and/or overcharged. When a company like Eastman can deliver an ES335 or LP (style) axe with all the trimmings of the originals, but at 1/5 of the original cost, the verdict is in and can't be anything else but: US is overpriced. I get it, wages are higher in the US but innovation doesn't happen in the US anymore but in China.

Yeah, the situation sucks.

 

[Demanic]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

The fact that fakes are getting harder to distinguish from real goods, but only cost a fraction of the price of the original is a testiment to something many already believe: that "US-made" goods are overpriced, overhyped and/or overcharged. When a company like Eastman can deliver an ES335 or LP (style) axe with all the trimmings of the originals, but at 1/5 of the original cost, the verdict is in and can't be anything else but: US is overpriced. I get it, wages are higher in the US but innovation doesn't happen in the US anymore but in China.

Yeah, the situation sucks.

It's called "unintended consequences".

Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

 

[singlecutarmy]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

Glad I ordered my last few direct from DiMarzio and GuitarCenter and not second hand sellers. I'm gonna be really sketch about any Reverb pickups now though.

 

[ErikH]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

Best thing one can do, pending any legal action anywhere, is to buy either direct or from an authorized reputable dealer. If I was buying used, I would get it from here or someone I know who doesn't sell here. Simple as that.

As for DiMarzio, Steve Blucher should be aware of any fakes. He's only been there for darn near forever.

 

[Mincer]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

The fact that fakes are getting harder to distinguish from real goods, but only cost a fraction of the price of the original is a testiment to something many already believe: that "US-made" goods are overpriced, overhyped and/or overcharged. When a company like Eastman can deliver an ES335 or LP (style) axe with all the trimmings of the originals, but at 1/5 of the original cost, the verdict is in and can't be anything else but: US is overpriced. I get it, wages are higher in the US but innovation doesn't happen in the US anymore but in China.

Yeah, the situation sucks.

First, I have to say that Eastman is a remarkable instrument. No doubt they will be a target for Gibson, like Dean was/is.

I am sure there are things that SD can do here, to further distinguish their products. But that is ever-changing, just like how we change money every few years. There probably is no recourse for end users who bought an inferior fake, but consequences for a US dealer that sold it to them. I would expect this is common in every industry. Look at the fake RayBans or Nikes, which cost a lot more than the average guitar pickup, and much broader appeal.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

At least with the biggest name apparel brands, a decent portion (certainly not all, of course) of the the general public are aware that fakes exist. Nonetheless, I see counterfeits sell for near-retail prices all the time in that industry, so it's not like the manufacturers aren't hurting. Heck, I recently purchased a pair of counterfeit Volcom shorts from a "reputable" seller on eBay who moves a ton of Volcom product and has many years of nearly impeccable feedback. I wouldn't have known anything was off if I didn't own several other pairs of the very same shorts and could identify the discrepancies and minor differences in quality. The seller fought me on it, but in the end, Volcom themselves confirmed that the shorts were knock-offs and said they were some of the best they had seen, but definitely weren't produced by them!

There are 4 issues I see with the pickup side of things:

1) Manufacturers like DiMarzio and SD don't seem to understand how far the counterfeiters have come, so they aren't addressing the issue as quickly as they need to
2) These counterfeiters are getting so good at replicating things like bobbins and baseplates that, in short time, even guys like me, who are freaks for details, may not be able to tell the difference between real and fake
3) Small and medium-size businesses (which most pickup manufacturers are) tend to be hurt most by such sincere counterfeiting
4) The general guitar-playing public is clueless that this evolution is happening in the marketplace

You can't stop counterfeiters, but SD can do a lot to stay ahead of them...new packaging, RFID, hologram decals, laser imprinted bobbins, etc.

 

[WDeeGee]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

The fact that fakes are getting harder to distinguish from real goods, but only cost a fraction of the price of the original is a testiment to something many already believe: that "US-made" goods are overpriced

Yeah, maybe Chinese workers are underpaid?

 

[RevDoom73]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

I don't think SD or any of the other companies are ignoring the problem or willfully oblivious to any of it, I think the problem is that it's not as easy to just address it and fix the issues as many might think. Any kind of running production changes in design or packaging, etc., involves a lot of planning and changes that cannot be done quickly or cheaply. Also, these people creating the counterfeits wind up moving just as quickly as the larger companies, so it'd be only a matter of time before the counterfeits caught up to the running changes made as well. This is just an unfortunate problem when it comes to trying to combat overseas counterfeits, there's no straight forward way to deal with much of it and legally there's not much that can be done. Honestly the best thing is for people to just buy your pickups directly from the manufacturer or from known reputable stores/distributors who get their product directly from the official source. I know people see these cheap deals on DHGate and eBay and get drawn in by saving a few bucks, or they like to buy second hand used to try out stuff cheaply (I've done it plenty of times too), but it really just becomes a "buyer beware" thing in those instances. I know many people say they don't mind buying the cheap knock-offs of sneakers or clothes or even guitars sometimes from these counterfeiters, but in my experience every time I've encountered these knock-off pickups they've been utter garbage and vastly inferior to the real deal.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

People who purchase through AliExpress, DHGate, etc. tend to know the risks. However, I've reported probably 10 sellers on eBay in the past 12-18 months for selling counterfeit Duncan products, but not before some of them were able to sell dozens of items. In the example I gave earlier, eBay won't pull the listing on my word alone, so I had to compromise with the seller directly to get them to include the word "replica" in the title.

Right now, all these fakes still seem like a small piece of the pie, but their presence is increasing at a rate I haven't seen before and so is their accuracy in replicating the "real" product. Sure, the company would have to invest a little money and effort now to stay ahead of them, but it's a good time to do so. The threat is apparent. If they do nothing, they risk their brand image and future lost sales by a public who is unaware of the problem. No one can stop the counterfeiters entirely, but, as the affected company, you can certainly:

1) Police listings on major auction sites, especially when prompted (ex: none of the ones I reported to SD directly ever got touched, yet Fender, Apple, Gibson, etc. police fraudulent auctions all the time)
2) Create a page to help inform consumers that fakes exist
3) Make it easier for buyers to identify your authentic products. It's 2020...get creative!

Simply suggesting that peeps "always buy new from an authorized dealer" isn't enough. Far more transactions happen on the used market. That's where most players are first exposed to SD products and that's where these counterfeits will ultimately find their home and do the most damage.

 

[OLDERBUDWISER]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

BTW, I did notify HQ. But I don't know what kind of reach legal protection has in the Far East.

Maybe if our agencies who are supposed to handle this BS would do their jobs instead of all the other stuff they got their noses in

 

[Aceman]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

Again - if the cost of a pickup is $10, and they sell for$20 on black market, and you can cut a deal for $30 on the retail market....that's a lot of profit.....

Microsoft has problems with China. Duncan is effed. Like I said - you make a deal to buy some, you put a guy on a plane, no questions. The supply of Duncans suddenly disappears.

 

[Securb]

Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

Wouldn't it be easier to ID the actual SD PUPs with some sort of hologram, RFID, watermark.

If you look at a lot of the counterfeit products all of these security measures are counterfeited along with the product. You can purchase the holograms as easily as you can buy the products.