The Grass Isn't always Greener...

[Lightninsurfer]

I have to confess that I've learned a valuable lesson. I replaced the pickups in my '69 Telecaster Thinline Reissue which were a Duncan Vintage Broadcaster and Vintage Rhythm. I have to admit that I also loved the sound of this guitar and was more than surprised by how much I loved the sound of the Duncan pickups. I recently replaced these pickups with a set from an up and coming boutique pickup manufacturer simply because I figured if the guitar sounds this good with Duncans, imagine how it would sound with boutiques! Guess what? It didn't sound any better, and in some ways, it was worse. I have increased noise, barely uncontrollable feedback, etc., etc. The bridge unit sounds close to the Broadcaster but without its versatility. The neck unit is kind of sterile. I will not be straying from the Duncan camp again. Fair pricing does not always equate into lower quality just as hand built dosen't always equate to higher quality. Seymour owns the Telecaster, a valuable yet expensive lesson learned.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

Nobody will argue with the fact that Seymour knows Tele's and Tele pickups more than probably anyone else on the planet! I speak mainly about the winding and the overall knowledge of the Tele pickup..

That Abigal lady that has been with Fender since the 50s is right up there probably with Seymour also...

 

[Curly]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

some of Seymour's "basic" pickups might be overlooked, because players think that good tone is a hard thing to find

the Broadcaster, and the strat SSLs and APSs are fantastic pickups!

If you compare the construction of these SD pickups to stock Fender pickups, you'll find the SDs have better materials, and more "authentic" construction.

that's what I found when I replaced the pickups in my MIA tele with Duncans

------------

I had a similar experience to you, though ...
when I first started coming on the forum, I was looking for a strat set for my first Warmoth project.
I had the same problem that quite a few people have - I got confused by the number of choices for Duncans, said !@#$%#$%, and got a set of well-reviewed, hand wound pickups from a well known boutique maker.

I found those pickups too bold and brash for my tastes, though, and replaced them with a set of Antiquities. I haven't looked back since, and I've tried quite a few strat pickups - mostly vintage style - and I've also tried several tele and humbuckers, and been quite satisfied.

that's why I consider myself a loyal SD customer.

 

[Artie]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

Also, I think there's sort of a catch 22 going on here. Seymours pups are boutique, except that they sound so good, and have become so popular, that the traditional definition of "boutique" no longer applies. Kinda like when perfectly good music becomes "pop", just because everyone likes it.

 

[Falstaff]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

At the end of the day, it's great when one can stop thinking about pickups and just enjoy playing. There are many avenues to that place, but once you're there it is a nice thing.

 

[Lightninsurfer]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

Falstaff, I couldn't have said it better myself, brother.

 

[Scott_F]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

I guess Seymour was the original boutique pickup winder.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

Nobody will argue with the fact that Seymour knows Tele's and Tele pickups more than probably anyone else on the planet! I speak mainly about the winding and the overall knowledge of the Tele pickup..

That Abigal lady that has been with Fender since the 50s is right up there probably with Seymour also...

Abigail was with Jackson in the mid 80s to early 90s

 

[strangegrey]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

You know, I've often fallen into the trap of thinking....'if Fralin, Detemple, Lollar, Wagner charges this much for a product, it *must* be better than what I've got here....'

just because something's almost prohibitively expensive, it doesn't mean it's better. Often times, the smaller boutique guys keep the prices of their product higher...simply because they couldn't handle the volume if it was lower. So the price doesn't always equal better...because it just might be sales limiting measure.

The fact of the matter is that pickup design (save for the noiseless stuff) hasn't changed in pretty much 50 years (I think we're a year away from the 50th aniversary of gibson's release of a Les Paul with a humbucker).....so there's really nothing new under the sun. Guys can claim left and right that their stuff is 'handwound', uses better wire, is spit shined with grit from stevie ray's fingerboard, whatever...but the fact of the matter is that pickups across the board are similar in alot of respects.

Pickup purchases are really almost like gas purchases. You tend to buy what you are comfortable with. I'm sure a great guitarist can get a good sound out of a dimarzio pickup, or a seymour or a wagner....it's whatever makes him or her feel better.


I've heard some guys comment on buying fralins and then claiming that the strat was totally resurected into the biggest tone machine....but a good percentage of that is a guy needing to self validate his purchase, even if the pickups dont wow. Having said all of that, I remember seeing a post on another forum where the guy said he couldn't justify the marginal difference between the fralin blues special and a fat 50s, so he sold the fralins and went with the fat 50s...and he put the 120 bucks he saved to good use elsewhere...

It's all perspective....but boutique hype is often, well, hype.....

 

[Zerberus]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

....
just because something's almost prohibitively expensive, it doesn't mean it's better. Often times, the smaller boutique guys keep the prices of their product higher...simply because they couldn't handle the volume if it was lower. So the price doesn't always equal better...because it just might be sales limiting measure.....

Yep, supply and demand,.... if you can´t supply enough to cover the demand, you can raise the price to the point where they meet in a perfect unison because raising the price will raise hte per piece profits at the cost of lowering demand

Not that that´s what they´re all doing, probably not.... there are some really cool Booteeks out there, but for almost everything I need I can find a Duncan, EMG or 80s Jackson poickup that does it great :headbang:

 

[Aceman]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

I like wine - and you can spend 10 dollars or 1000. One of my all time favorites was 10 dollar bottle. The blind tasting is what separates the men from the boys. When label, price and other intangibles are out of the picture it comes down to taste. Put a blindfold on and listen. Your ears will tell you what's best...let the price tag fall where it may. But I'm always way more impressed with someone who makes a killer bottle for 10 bucks...or an awesome pup for 60!

 

[strangegrey]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

Yeah, I'm definitely not suggesting that's what they're all doing...I'm just saying that sometimes you dont know if the price really matches the quality....

Just because a pickup is really expensive, doesn't mean it's good....

 

[Falstaff]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

I have gone from one maker's 60s pickup to another maker's Broadcaster pickup...it's apples and oranges in a way. The first guy's B'caster might have made me just as happy as the second guy's.

 

[Scott_F]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

taste tested some Sauza Hornitos versus some Cabo Wabo. several couldn't tell the difference. Cabo is twice as much.

 

[strangegrey]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

Yeah, but it's Cabo man!!!
Sammy!!!!! :beerchug:

 

[JeffB]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

good tone is good tone...regardless of cost....I dont think you have to pay a lot to get good tone with pups..most of the players many of us grew up listening to were not playing what we would consider boutique pups today...they were playing stock pups, or rewinds/handwounds from guys like Seymour and Larry.

I've heard stellar tones from $60 Duncans and DiMarzios, and (IMO) crappy tones from some of the $400 a set pups.

Hellfire...for ME , stock Gibson pups seem to sound best to my ears...and they get the same kind of bad rap by many here and elsewhere on the net that boutique lovers give Duncan & DiMarzio..

:shrug:

PLay what sounds good..doesnt matter what name is on it.

 

[Rev Donzo]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

The feedback is probably because they faild to get the base plate nice and flush... is the up and coming winders last name end with FF??????

 

[Tweed]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

I have to confess that I've learned a valuable lesson. I replaced the pickups in my '69 Telecaster Thinline Reissue which were a Duncan Vintage Broadcaster and Vintage Rhythm. I have to admit that I also loved the sound of this guitar and was more than surprised by how much I loved the sound of the Duncan pickups. I recently replaced these pickups with a set from an up and coming boutique pickup manufacturer simply because I figured if the guitar sounds this good with Duncans, imagine how it would sound with boutiques! Guess what? It didn't sound any better, and in some ways, it was worse. I have increased noise, barely uncontrollable feedback, etc., etc. The bridge unit sounds close to the Broadcaster but without its versatility. The neck unit is kind of sterile. I will not be straying from the Duncan camp again. Fair pricing does not always equate into lower quality just as hand built dosen't always equate to higher quality. Seymour owns the Telecaster, a valuable yet expensive lesson learned.

So...did you contact this "up and coming boutique manufacturer" and describe your experiences? And what was the outcome?

 

[papersoul]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

I think Duncan is not a true boutique pickup maker these days because they are wound by machine and not hand. Correct? I guess boutique is more of one or two people winding the pickups by hand, machine or not. I tried wome boutques and really like the WCR Goodwood......but that is not to say I couldn't find something as nice in a production Duncan. The jury is still out for me on the C-5 though. I guess boutique would be more like Duncan's custom shop?

I thing people are looking for with hand wound or boutique pickups is better not bloom, harmonic overtones and richness, with no harsh edges and maybe a tone that is somewhat transparent or stands out in the mix more?

Many times I have heard EMGs are very transparent and I have heard the same about Rio Grandes. For the longest time I tried to just stay with stock pickups to avoid the madness......but it got the best of me in the end.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: The Grass Isn't always Greener...

A lot of people tend to have a prejudice about mass production that forces them to assume a mass produced product is of inferior quality. While this is true a lot of the time, it is by no means a hard and fast rule. In reality, there are three main reasons for a product to suck:

1. Bad design
2. Poor quality materials
3. Poor quality workmanship

SD pickups are well designed, made from high quality materials, and built to high standards by experienced people. It should be no surprise that they are high quality products.