The highest output passive pickup?

[andrew11]

The highest output passive pickup?

Highest output passive is the dimarzio X2N-B which is rated at 580 millivolts. This is a hotter version of the regular x2n
the X2N-B is hotter than the active emg 81 or 85.

So I found out the the X2n-B is a bass pickup. Anybody ever used a bass pickup in a regular guitar? Is it possible?

 

[Gplayerzzz]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

Never tried the B, but the reg X2N has to be the highest i've played. You can talk into it, and hear it through your amp. I can't imagine 580 MV.

 

[GuildX700]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

A bit late to the party here.

I have what are THE highest output ever made passive pickups. They were special made by KMD for me back in 1983, they are triple rail humbuckers.

Their output measures 590 MV and their DC resistance is 26k in triple series mode. They are Epoxy potted, and have 3 mounting screws so you can adjust tilt.

They have all wiring available to hook up the 3 coils in any manner you could imagine.

I have access to every conceivable combination imaginable via 2 triple throw switches and 3 push/pull pots installed in my 1973 Hagstrom Swede. The pots are also vol/vol/master tone. The master tone is a stacked pot with a different cap for the neck and bridge pickups.

ANY sound is possible with these, from a strat or tele sound, to a standard humbucker, to an all out monster sound heavier than an X2N.

 

[roseblood11]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

The highest output passive pickup is called the nonsensebucker.
It kills all high frequencies and catches a lot of noise, because of the high impedance.
It's better to use a preamp...

 

[Demanic]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

Ouch!

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[dave74]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

Dimebucker = more clear/dry and solid feeling than invader/x2n.

X2N = more midrange punch but a bit more compressed dynamics

Invader = dark and juicy with more jolt in the lows and less clarity in the highs (still a strong presence though)

no boutique experience here

 

[jeremy]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

i feel like the slug is in there somewhere

 

[GuildX700]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

The highest output passive pickup is called the nonsensebucker.
It kills all high frequencies and catches a lot of noise, because of the high impedance.
It's better to use a preamp...

With my triple rail buckers I can get as many highs as I want depending how I select the coils to be configured. I also have 1meg pots.

I can easily get ice pick tone just like my Telescaster bridge pickup can.

Noise is not an issue either as I did a serious shielding job in all cavities and their covers and used premium shielded wiring throughout. These triple rail buckers are quiet enough to record with.

Preamps can add their own noise and sound too.

 

[Gibson 1964]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

dimebucker has 1160mv per SD. I have seen no data on the slug. Dimebucker has piles of highs so the common misconception that high output has no highs is obviously false. 590mv doesn't seem that high to me in the world of high output pickups.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

590mv doesn't seem that high to me in the world of high output pickups.

X2N is 510mV

JB is supposedly 737mV
Perpetual Burn is supposedly 582mV

According to one set of measurements, it might appear the 590mV isn't quite high output. In another realm, 590mV will melt metal.

 

[Gibson 1964]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

yeah, its all about how it is measured. I am wondering, short of putting two neos in a slug, (which I will someday figure out how to do) how something could be much hotter than a slug.

I would also doubt that a set from '83 is going to be the highest output yet. there have been a lot of changes in 30+ years.

 

[EDX]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

i don't think there's still a way to make a passive pickup hotter than the slug, nor it will be way in the next 20 years........

 

[GuildX700]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

I've not tried a Dimebucker, but I had an X2N in the bridge position in that guitar before the triple buckers and the X2N's had significantly LESS output than the triple buckers did.

Fact is you CAN'T use SD's MV ratings when trying to compare to other manufactures.

SD's numbers are only good when comparing one SD pickup to another.

My gut feel is my triple buckers in real world use have higher output than a Dimebucker.

 

[EDX]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

hmmm but will the triple buckers provide the authoritative thumping chainsaw sound as the dimebucker does? probably not, will the triple buckers provide the sledgehammer like ooooze of the invader? i doubt that, will they have a bigger mid push than X2N's? according to you they do, will they sound bigger and thicker than El Diablo? with that thing being 22k with A2 rails it will be hard to sound thicker and bolder without sounding mushy and undefined...

the triplebuckers can be really hot and powerful but still they're just a bug on the face of the Slug with it's 48k dcr and ceramic rail magnets it is the final frontier of output for passive pickups

 

[Mincer]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

i feel like the slug is in there somewhere

The SLUG has to be in there somewhere. But some people with more sensitive hearing in the high end might pick another pickup with more highs. 'Highest output' isn't even 'highest perceived output'.

 

[freefrog]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

Triple rails buckers?

What about this quadruple rail model designed by an old friend of mine?

http://www.kcpi.fr/imagprod/newntm.jpg

LOL.

It's not necessarily the most powerful pickup but it's actually a good sounding one, BTW.


That said...

If I had to find the most powerful passive PU, I wouldn't trust its DCR: I'd start by measuring its inductance AND Gauss level, which are two more important parms IME... albeit they still not draw the whole picture.

So, the best test is to measure empirically the max output level of a passive PU and it's relatively easy to do: buy or borrow a multimeter, set it on voltage and if possible, ask it to memorize peak values. Then connect it to the output jack of the guitar with alligator clips. then dig the strings until the voltage doesn't rise no more...

For the record, one of the most powerful pickups I've measured with this method is a vintage Bill Lawrence spitting 1,2v with its humble 14k : after 30 years of use, it wasn't even fully gaussed and it hadn't the highest inductance (it was a 9,5H thing while I've measured some PU's @ 12H). But Bill known how to design efficient magnetic circuits, without too much Eddy currents.

The funny thing is that such an output voltage is not even reliable since it actually changes according to the lenght of cable used to plug the axe (because the pickup, pots and cable form a LRC circuit, displacing the peak power in the audio spectrum according to the overall capacitance involved).

That's one of the many reasons why the output level of passive coils can't be measured absolutely, at the end of the day...

FWIW (no more than my 2 "dimes", probably). Good luck for those who will keep searching the most mighty bucker!!! )

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

A Duncan Performer Scorcher is something like ~25k DC resistance?

 

[darthphineas]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

Fact is you CAN'T use SD's MV ratings when trying to compare to other manufactures.

SD's numbers are only good when comparing one SD pickup to another.

^^^ this ^^^


and


there might still be some clinging to the erroneous notion that DCR = output

between the DiMarzio Super Distortion at 13.68 DCR with 425mV output and the DiMarzio Super 3 at 25.00k DCR with 435mV output. Super D has 45% of the Super 3 DCR, yet the Super 3 only has about 2% more mV output.



and


there is a reason there is more than one school of thought on the value of a pickup's output

let's consider the Super D at 425mV and the X2N at 510mV. the X2N is about 20% louder. which of those 2 do you think you've heard in more songs on the radio (or streaming or iTunes or whatever)? or for that matter, a much weaker old vintage classic PAF or a 70s-era T-Top... I figure we've all heard either one of those on benchmark-level songs more than the Super D and the X2N combined.

 

[SGFanatic]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

SD slug 48k, Lace Drop and Gain 22k, SD EL Diablo 22k

 

[GuildX700]

Re: The highest output passive pickup?

Triple rails buckers?

What about this quadruple rail model designed by an old friend of mine?

http://www.kcpi.fr/imagprod/newntm.jpg

LOL.

It's not necessarily the most powerful pickup but it's actually a good sounding one, BTW.


That said...

If I had to find the most powerful passive PU, I wouldn't trust its DCR: I'd start by measuring its inductance AND Gauss level, which are two more important parms IME... albeit they still not draw the whole picture.

So, the best test is to measure empirically the max output level of a passive PU and it's relatively easy to do: buy or borrow a multimeter, set it on voltage and if possible, ask it to memorize peak values. Then connect it to the output jack of the guitar with alligator clips. then dig the strings until the voltage doesn't rise no more...

For the record, one of the most powerful pickups I've measured with this method is a vintage Bill Lawrence spitting 1,2v with its humble 14k : after 30 years of use, it wasn't even fully gaussed and it hadn't the highest inductance (it was a 9,5H thing while I've measured some PU's @ 12H). But Bill known how to design efficient magnetic circuits, without too much Eddy currents.

The funny thing is that such an output voltage is not even reliable since it actually changes according to the lenght of cable used to plug the axe (because the pickup, pots and cable form a LRC circuit, displacing the peak power in the audio spectrum according to the overall capacitance involved).

That's one of the many reasons why the output level of passive coils can't be measured absolutely, at the end of the day...

FWIW (no more than my 2 "dimes", probably). Good luck for those who will keep searching the most mighty bucker!!! )

I can see some of Lawrence's pickups having some serious output.

Seems to me the pickup in the original Gibson L6S were Bill Lawrence and had serious output, sadly they were wasted on a big hunk of maple that did horrible things to any pickup put into that thing.

FWIW here;s Gibson's chart: