The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

[Anficht]

Been real busy with pickup tryouts the last 4 weeks, had 10 different Duncan humbuckers so far only to still not be 100% happy.
Ok, this is gonna be long, sorry for that.

The guitars they went in were 2 Power-Strats. Both really different. One of them is real picky.
One (cream-colored) is an old Fender YJM Alder body, that I rerouted from the SSS rout it came stock to H-S-H, since I'm more of a humbucker type of player. It has an USA Custom Guitars Maple/Rosewood neck and Callaham vintage bridge with narrow spacing. 3x CTS 500k pots and 2 .022uf RS Guitarworks caps.
This guitar is really heavy - I'm not sure how much that old Fender YJM body weighs but it's heavier than most Strats I ever played.
The Acoustic sound is typical Strat, though on the mellower/tamer side.

The other Strat (white) is an USA Custom Guitars Alder Strat body, with 1-piece all-Rosewood USACG neck, 25"-PRS-scale, hardtail Hipshot bridge and also 3x CTS 500k pots and .022uf RS Guitarworks caps.
This one is really light, even the all-Rosewood neck is much lighter than any Maple neck I've ever tried.
The tone of this Strat is kinda unique - bright, with a strong bass.


Now for the pickups, here are my impressions:

-SH-1 '59 model neck and bridge: This was intended for the white one as I'm looking for more of a vintage vibe for this one. This set was good. When I first put it in I was sure this was the one. Later I started noticing more and more the missing mids and a bit too bright highs. I'm not hearing the "too bassy" thing most people talk about though.
I kept those in for one week but due to the slightly scooped mids I get lost in the mix with a band and eventually had a pass at them.
Output wise, I feel they are moderate, not vintage, but I just wish these came with increased mids and a little less pronounced & bright pick attack.
Hoping that the 59B would give me more mids, I put it in the neck just for kicks. Didn't work though - too much output for the neck position. Strangely, the guitar felt like I was playing with rubber bands. I'm not sure why, the 59B just didn't feel and sound right in the neck pos so I took it out immediately.


-Sh-5 Custom: After the '59 set, I was sure this would be the one for the white one. But it was not. Way too much for that guitar. Totally boomy, a bit too bright. Boomy power chords.
Tried it in the yellow one (the mellower one of the two) and it was almost perfect. Almost. Great bass definition, nice mids and just a bit too bright highs. But pretty great overall.
Strangely, the Sh-5 Custom seems to have a 3d-kind of effect to it, like it has an harmonic enhancer in there or something. Very noticable with power-chords. Like it adds another dimension of sound - really cool. This pickup definitely has lots of character in the right guitar.

-Sh-6 Distortion neck and bridge: Great definition but again way too bright in the white one. Also, the sound feels kind of focused on a particular frequency range, therefore leaving me with the impression that they're not as high output as the numbers show them to be. Anyway, those were really not what I was looking for in the white one.
I tried them in the cream-colored Strat and while I didn't love the DistB, the DistN turned out really well. If someone had given me the DistN and didn't tell me anything about it, I would have thought that it was a moderate-output A5 humbucker.
The DistN in the cream one feels like a blend of a Hot Rails neck and Cool Rails neck. Powerfull and clear, great for neck soloing a la Dave Murray (Iron Maiden), yet not so overly compressed and undynamic as the Hot Rails neck is. I'd say HR tone (almost) with CR dynamics.

-Sh-4 JB Model: Just had to try one out myself. First thing I did when I installed this one and strung up the guitar and played a chord was to get all the strings off again and triple-check if I had made a mistake when I wired it up. One weird pickup, the JB. Like it has a constant out-of-phase sound added to the normal sound. Hard to describe. It definitely sings pretty easily but I don't see any magic or mojo with this one. Just one weird sounding bridge pickup. Hard to believe Seymour actually went into business because of this pickup.
Then I tried it in the neck and there it was just dull, high output and compress-o-mania. But really dull - even with 500k's and even though it was in the white (bright) Strat.
Didn't bother trying it in the cream Strat.


(continuing next post, as there's character restriction on posts)

 

[Anficht]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

-Sh-10 Full Shred (bridge): One tight pickup. Shreddy, as the name implies. Most tight-assed pickup I ever tried. Immediate response. In fact it's so tight and fast the sound comes out the speakers before you hit the strings. Soundwise it was good - maybe a bit flat - not that much character. Sure wasn't my thing.
Tried it in the neck where it had great definition aswell, but again, felt just just a bit too sterile.
Good pickup for a certain application but not what I'm looking for.

-Pearly Gates neck: Like with the JB, it was immediate dislike. Bright (but not unpleasant) pick-attack, good on the high E, B and G strings. But, it doesn't go well with distortion - and doing fast leads. All that's coming out of the speakers is undefined mush. I can play anything - as long as it's fast - it doesn't make a difference, all you hear is a muddy, messy sound with indistinguishable notes. Tried all kinds of height adjustments. Nothing. Took it out in disgust after 1 hour of constant fighting. Didn't work in both guitars.

-Alnico2Pro bridge and neck: This was the set I really wanted to like. And I almost did. The bridge pickup was weird. Good but just a bit off. Backing down the volume on the guitar to 7 gave good results. At 10 it was muddy. The neck pickup was nice, though again - I hate that A2 compression. Soft and totally undynamic pickups.
I'd love the neck model tone with a dynamic A5 pick attack.
Tonewise, the neck model sounds better than the bridge model.
Dynamically the bridge model is a bit better than the neck model.
I kept returning to this set only to get annoyed at the A2 attack. And although fast runs weren't as messy as with the PG neck, the compression and totally unexpressiveness was a deal breaker in the end.

Lesson I learned of the A2Pro and Pearly Gates: I'm not an A2 guy.


Ok, sorry for the long read.
So far I'm settled for the Custom/Distortion neck for my cream Strat. I feel this set is good enough to keep it and both pickups sound really good on their own and work very well as a team.
I haven't had any luck for the white one yet.
Right now I'm looking at what DiMarzio has to offer as I don't see anything else in the Duncan line that would work.

The journey goes on...

 

[Rowan]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

Excellent post. I really think you would have found some of the mentioned pickups perfect if they had been put in something else besides a strat, which can be bright. Many Duncans are already fairly bright. If you liked the Custom and Distortion then try out the new Alt 8. It is similar is character to those pickups but with a more rounded treble that is not as harsh.

 

[Yngwiestein]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

A couple of things. Some of the pickups you chose aren't exactly ideal for strats. I wouldn't expect a whole lot of tonal differences in the two guitars for several reasons. One being that one reason why Alder is widely used is because it's a very consistent wood. Not as much variation from an alder strat to an alder strat as there would be with an ash to an ash. Both with maple/rosewood necks. So I would consider the tonewoods a mimimal impact on the test.

Another thing is 500k pots are going to brighten your pickups. Using 500k in a strat which is inately midrange and bright probably isnt' going to produce the results you want. Add a ceramic pickup with moderate amount of treble or scooped midrange and you get harsh highs and boomy bottom.

Another missing variable is the amp. Whether you used the amp with a flat eq, whether it was solid state or tube, how loud it was and whether you recorded them. What your ears hear will adjust after hearing recordings. What you hear when you play and what you hear when you record are sometimes very different things. I never had good success testing pickups or pedals on a solid state amp. It just doesn't allow all the characteristics and warmth to come through like a tube amp.

It's very interesting that you chose the Custom/Distortion combo given that they sounded bright and harsh to you. Both are high output and have generous amounts of treble. You got the Custom with a deep mid scoop and the Distortion with generous mids and highs. Both in a strat with 500k pots. That wouldn't have been my first choice.

You're probably bound to find better luck with Dimarzios because they have lots and lots of midrange and bass and it sounds like you scoop your mids and use a fair amount of bass. I don't know that to be true but from your description and my knowledge of those pups it sounds that way.

I'm not saying you didn't try many of these things. Given the limited amount of information just leads me to question. Interestingly enough your review sounds like a summary from 4 weeks of pickup switching instead of documenting the findings with each change. Again I don't know if you did this, it just sounds that way from the way you wrote it.

Another variable left out is the amounts of gain and results from clean vs distorted. Some of those pickups will not sound good with lots of distortion, like the A2 Pro. Give that pickup lots of distortion and it will muddy up. It probably excels at low to medium gain settings. Then of course we don't know how these pickups did on clean settings. So you like the Custom and Distortion and those both handle distortion better than the Alnico 2 Pro.

Lots of variables yet to be determined. I am interested to know these things. I think your review would be better with a little more detail on the variables.

 

[NoOnesFang13]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

if you are looking into dimarzio for the white one, i would suggest VHPAF for the bridge and VPAF in the neck if you can find one, or the new 36th anniversary which sounds really good, http://www.backflashband.net/dimarzio.mp3, the clip isnt me but in a post i had a while back someone posted it. And were i u i would switch the 500k for 250k. The VHPAF is the most versital pickup i have found.
Setup:
Dimarzio Bluesbucker
Dimarzio Area '61
Dimarzio Virtual Hot PAF

250k Pots (the 500k made them sounds too trebely)
Volume-Tone/coil tap
5 way with auto tap
Alder Ibanez RT (RG only alder)
Maple neck/ rosewood fretboard
Gotoh locking tuner
Gotoh 2 point non-locking bridge

Sonic Evaluation:
The thing about the VHPAF is that it can sound sweet or crunchy.
can be moved close to the strings where the sweet spot is i found
sounds like a good vintage PAF should, kinda humbucker with a little bit of single coil character.
very versital i can literally play anything (minus jazz) with this pickup, covers the spectrum which is what i wanted.

Full power (vol at 10):
Breaks up nicely, eveident bass, nice highs (the highs are rolled off but the alder adds them making the eq reletivly flat), very 3D character, can be used for blues to metal. High notes sound rounded the low notes are tight, very rockin humbucker.

Vol at 8:
Backs down the output a little to normal PAF range, same characteristics as mentioned before, little less tight bass but still not muddy, good for cleans (though i tend to use a neck or middle for that), very sweet tone. not too bright (no trebel bleed on mine)

Full power tapped:
according to the Dimarzio website this pickup taps really well and i tend to agree, however at full power it is a little biting and does not sound like a strat (too high output)

Vol at 8 tapped:
now this is what i wanted, sounds very very close to a strat, i get great richie blackmore tones out of this (sampled smoke on the water and was pleasently suprised), i typically have problems with singles in the bridge because they are thin and tinny, and ice picky, this is the complete opposite, fat (not p-90 fat but a fat strat pickup) nice sweet tone, no problems with highs (once again no trebel bleed)

this is my absolute favorite humbucker but it must be used with 250k the 500k will make it sound like garbage.

Best of luck.

-Ray

 

[Anficht]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

@SixStringSales:

Alrighty, couple of things.
First, of all I agree with you, Alder is pretty consistent. Yet, these are two totally different guitars, one having an all-Rosewood neck (no Maple) and a shorter PRS-scale + being hardtail.
All that yields a pretty different tone.
The white Strat has a unique character - kinda inbetween a PRS and a Strat.
When unplugged it's on the brighter side of the scale, yet it has a strong bass.

The cream one is a typical Strat after the 60ies forumula. Only differnce is it is dual-humbucking.
Unplugged it has the Strat character but on the mellower/darker side.

So I'm starting off with actually quite a bit of tonal differences. Obviously not as much as an LP would differ from a Strat but for 2 similar-built guitars it's very different.

500k is the standard used with humbuckers and lI believe the recommended value for them (unless you're getting a JB).
I'm not too fond of 300k's or 250k's in humbucking applications. I've tried it with various pickups (not Duncan's though) and each time they left me wanting more treble and power.

Next, you're reffering to the Custom (Sh-5) as a scooped pickup, which you must be confusing with the Custom5, cause the regular Custom I hear as having plenty of mids.

Regarding my taste, I'm far off from liking scooped tone.
My ideal tone is pretty mid-heavy, with clear treble, yet not too bright and strong bass.
If I'd refer to certain guitar heroes of mine I'd say ideally Dave Murray or Yngwie Malmsteen or even Petrucci on "Images and Words" is what I consider tonal preferences (given that those are pretty different from each other).

I wasn't going into much detail other than what guitars those pickups were in, as I think that one has to get very detailed in order to do a good comparison scientifically and I was more into stating a quick review from a players point of view without mentioning strings, pickup heights, amps, cables, picks, wiring, tubes, speakers etc.
I mean if you want every pickup test under a scientifically controlled situations every other thread here would be pointless.

The amps I used was a Marshall DSL and JCM 900 models with the band and at home recording each pickup through a Line6 PodX3 - always using the same settings for each pickup on my main "patches" but also going through different amp models and also trying out different settings.
Again, the above impressions were from what I gathered playing around with those pickups for days or weeks or in some cases just a few hours.
What impression and tonal qualities that pickup gave me - generalised.
Like, in general this one was muddy, or that one was scooped or that one mid-heavy. At the end of the day a pickup has a certain flavor which it applies to all amp-models, recording devices etc. That flavour was what I was trying to describe.

I shoud have added though that my primary focus was for distorted
Blues/Rock playing. Nothing too heavy, I guess tones in the vibe of EVH, Maiden and Gary Moore.

Sure, different guitars, playing techniques, amps etc. and most importantly different players will get different results out of each pickup - and one can sit around talk about pickups for days/weeks/months - the only case to really be able to know what a pickup is like is to buy it and test-drive it.

All I tried to do is to give a review after 4 weeks of intensive pickup test driving - as you stated it - and not a thorough documentation of pickup science. I just thought I'd post my findings as I take it some people (including myself) like reading impressions so they can put a pickup on their list to try out (or not).

 

[kevinT]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

Thanks for posting that review...sounds like you've been really busy. I have a number of the pickups that you mentioned and sound great in various applications. A couple pickups i didn't notice that you mentioned was the CC or the A8. Although you said that you're not a great fan of A2, you might try the CC next. The CC has big bass, nice mids, and it really isn't bright at all. Also try the A8, ...it is warm, smooth, and balanced across the EQ spectrum...this might be the one to do it for ya.

As stated, if those don't do it, you might try DiMarzios but from what I hear, they tend to be harsh, and bright in many applications.

You might try the boutique makers out there as well.

How does the saying go..."There are no bad sounding pickups, it's just finding the right guitar to put them in."

 

[JeffB]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

I basically have come to terms with the fact that regardless of who makes 'em there are only a handful of pups from any given manufacturer I like.

Upon using a pup/several pickups I know I care for and the guitar doesn't start producing a sound that inspires me-chances are it's the guitar- many guitars are beyond "fixing" with pups- at least as regards to an individual person's tastes.

 

[MikeS]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

Nice review. It seems that you and I have fairly close tonal preferences based on your descriptions. In strat style guitars I feel the same way about some of those pickups. If by chance you ever want to give the Custom a spin in another style guitar I highly recommend a Les Paul. LP + Custom + JCM800 is going to put you into Ozzy-era Zakk Wylde (when he had good tone) ballpark.

You might try an A8 magnet in the Custom. By all accounts it’s a blend between the A2 and the A5. It’s on my list to try, as the descriptions lead me to believe it takes my favorite parts of A2 and A5 while leaving out the things I don’t like about the two magnets. I will say that I really like the Crazy 8 in my white strat (at left). Though, it’s worth noting that it’s a mahogany body.

How does the saying go..."There are no bad sounding pickups, it's just finding the right guitar to put them in."

Hehe, whoever said that never played a BSDM pickup.

 

[sosomething]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

Anficht: Thanks for posting this thread.

It was a great read and you reviewed a number of pickups I've never tried, but based on your descriptions I feel I have a better understanding of them.

Right on. Good luck in your search!

 

[Diocletian]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

Well, I love the JB. Maybe it's just the guitar it's in.

 

[Yngwiestein]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

@SixStringSales:

Alrighty, couple of things.
First, of all I agree with you, Alder is pretty consistent. Yet, these are two totally different guitars, one having an all-Rosewood neck (no Maple) and a shorter PRS-scale + being hardtail.
All that yields a pretty different tone.
The white Strat has a unique character - kinda inbetween a PRS and a Strat.
When unplugged it's on the brighter side of the scale, yet it has a strong bass.

The cream one is a typical Strat after the 60ies forumula. Only differnce is it is dual-humbucking.
Unplugged it has the Strat character but on the mellower/darker side.

So I'm starting off with actually quite a bit of tonal differences. Obviously not as much as an LP would differ from a Strat but for 2 similar-built guitars it's very different.

500k is the standard used with humbuckers and lI believe the recommended value for them (unless you're getting a JB).
I'm not too fond of 300k's or 250k's in humbucking applications. I've tried it with various pickups (not Duncan's though) and each time they left me wanting more treble and power.

Next, you're reffering to the Custom (Sh-5) as a scooped pickup, which you must be confusing with the Custom5, cause the regular Custom I hear as having plenty of mids.

Regarding my taste, I'm far off from liking scooped tone.
My ideal tone is pretty mid-heavy, with clear treble, yet not too bright and strong bass.
If I'd refer to certain guitar heroes of mine I'd say ideally Dave Murray or Yngwie Malmsteen or even Petrucci on "Images and Words" is what I consider tonal preferences (given that those are pretty different from each other).

I wasn't going into much detail other than what guitars those pickups were in, as I think that one has to get very detailed in order to do a good comparison scientifically and I was more into stating a quick review from a players point of view without mentioning strings, pickup heights, amps, cables, picks, wiring, tubes, speakers etc.
I mean if you want every pickup test under a scientifically controlled situations every other thread here would be pointless.

The amps I used was a Marshall DSL and JCM 900 models with the band and at home recording each pickup through a Line6 PodX3 - always using the same settings for each pickup on my main "patches" but also going through different amp models and also trying out different settings.
Again, the above impressions were from what I gathered playing around with those pickups for days or weeks or in some cases just a few hours.
What impression and tonal qualities that pickup gave me - generalised.
Like, in general this one was muddy, or that one was scooped or that one mid-heavy. At the end of the day a pickup has a certain flavor which it applies to all amp-models, recording devices etc. That flavour was what I was trying to describe.

I shoud have added though that my primary focus was for distorted
Blues/Rock playing. Nothing too heavy, I guess tones in the vibe of EVH, Maiden and Gary Moore.

Sure, different guitars, playing techniques, amps etc. and most importantly different players will get different results out of each pickup - and one can sit around talk about pickups for days/weeks/months - the only case to really be able to know what a pickup is like is to buy it and test-drive it.

All I tried to do is to give a review after 4 weeks of intensive pickup test driving - as you stated it - and not a thorough documentation of pickup science. I just thought I'd post my findings as I take it some people (including myself) like reading impressions so they can put a pickup on their list to try out (or not).

Thanks for the review BTW. I was just curious about a few things.

 

[Anficht]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

Sure, no prob. Thanks for your comments.

Thanks for everybodies comments btw. and for trying to help with my white axe.
I'm putting all your suggestions on a list and I'm close to ordering a new batch of pickups to try out.
It's a lot of work and kinda nerv-wrecking - you know, always taking strings off, removing pickguards, de-installing pickups, installing new ones, pickguard back on and restringing. Especially when the results are not as hoped.

I'll be taking a time off from testing for a few days but will order a new batch of pickups soon. I'm thankful for your suggestions and will include those that look promising for my next tests.

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

I'd really like to hear your myspace links or soundclick (MP3 of some kind). Just curious of the sound you are going for. I found some of your evaluations a little surprising.

 

[Anficht]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

Fair enough.
I'll let ya know what I typically sound like.

Unfortunately, I have currently only 3 small Jams that I did for another forum, mainly focusing on solo playing. Have a listen to those 3 Jams if you like:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=838315

It's the white Strat with some custom made humbuckers (not Duncan's) recorded through a PodXT. Nothing else added and no post-processing. I think the tone is pretty close to my ideal on those clips


Edit: Btw, I'm curious, what did you find surprising in my evaluations?

 

[Diocletian]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

Loving this Malmsteenjam thing! You clearly can't play just as fast as him - which is good, cos he sounds like crap whereas you sound great!
Excellent work there.

Hmm, the Floydjam one sounds more like Malmsteen again....You're a big fan of his eh?! I like the tone you have on these a lot.
Bluesjam is a little like Gary Moore, but without a Les Paul. Really good stuff.

You're a great player.

 

[Anficht]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

Yes, I'm a big fan of Malmsteen and Dave Murray - my two main guitar heroes.
Thanks a lot for your comments

 

[alex1fly]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

As stated, if those don't do it, you might try DiMarzios but from what I hear, they tend to be harsh, and bright in many applications.

That's exactly what I've thought about the majority of Duncans I've tried in my strat and LP. Different preferences, ya?

Killer playing in those clips. Maybe you need some Evos for that mad shred. I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for eventually.

 

[heymcz]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

Awesome post, thanks! Many of my experiences are very similar to yours, though I liked the Full Shred better than you did.

I love the Custom as well, even in a bright guitar.

But if you wish the Custom had a bit less highs and was warmer...get a DiMarzio Breed bridge. It's clearer, high-output A5, with a lot of uppermids and bass. For me, it's the perfect bridge pickup.


.

 

[Yngwiestein]

Re: The longest journey - my impressions on 10 different Duncan's

A clip says a thousand words! Great stuff.