NecroPolo
New member
Beware: long read 
We have just returned from a re-amping session for our new album that produced some strange twists. As far as it seems, tonewise the "end of the road" doesn't exist and sometimes nothing is what it seems. This is not about feel or response or onstage fun, only about solid facts: running the very same signal into different amps that go into the same cab.
As for some prelude, we decided to give the fate of our 3rd album into the hands of the producer / sound engineer of the 1st album, Zoltan 'Pici' Varga. During the years that passed since 2004, he built and impressive studio called "Supersize Recordings" and true to the name, the place is armed to teeth with top-notch recording gear and is full of great sounding, spacious rooms. As we arranged our work plan, we decided that the best would be recording all the guitars (my good old Duncanised Warmoth LPS) as DI line level here in my studio through my AMEK CIB that can be re-amped with a much wider array of microphones, mic preamps, guitar cabs and amps that I can dig up here.
At the day of re-amping, I carried 2 of my all-times fav Marshall heads to the session, a 50W JCM800 MKII Lead and a JCM900 SL-X 2500. Just for fun and showing my new floorboard to Pici, I carried my EHX 44M + AMT M1 micro rig there and a Korg G1 that have always worked as some kind of safety belt for me. That's my lucky voodoo stompbox or something. The cab was my old Laney Klipp 4x12" Greenback beast and a small 1x12" G12T-75 cab as a part of my spine-friendly rig.
During the sound check, the basic idea was to find a sound that is right without any post-processing. The first important decision was to replace the Greenback cab with V30 cabs. Despite my love for the good old Greens, their true vintage sound did not support the band style through the rec gear well enough. Onstage it's an integral part of our sound but recorded it just wasn't aggressive enough. After switching to a Laboga 4x12" V30 cab (rather nice one I can tell) both Marshalls performed pretty well where they supposed to do that: the upper mid-range. As we tried to find the sound that suits the production best, the JCM800 produced very articulate lows and sound in general at a moderate gain (pre gain around 2 o'clock) but the gain was too low for the style of the band. The JCM800 started to lose definition above that point and produced a somewhat spongy yet harsh highs that we could not cure with the EQ/PRESENCE. Tried boost pedals but besides boosting a certain part of the sound carpet, every and each one bit a component out of the whole that was missed. The sound was nice overall but it was too moderate for the sound that we wanted to hear. We switched to the JCM900 SL-X.
The SL-X produced much better sound for the band but mic'ed it was still too moderate. When the cascade gain started to have the quick edge that I wanted to hear, it lost the low end. At the point where it started to kick the lows, it lost the edge/attack and definition. The metal sound that I'm after is both biting and kicking. We tried hard but after going all the way between the possible sounds, it was impossible to find a good balance. Plus, it suffered from a similar 'harsh sponginess' as the JCM800: it sounded great with one-note and palm mute riffs but whenever I hit an open chord it started to wash together everything and lose definition, even with decreased gain. All my fav amps and my beloved cab were out of the game. Dry facts killed them.
Anyway, the job needed to be done. There were other amps around in the studio that we started to test, searching for a working solution. The first amp we tried was an SP Hydra custom amp. SP is a small manufacturer in my country that is specialised on high-end guitar amps. The Hydra is a co-op with SP and Mr Hackman, who had a finger (or two) in the development of the famous Diezel VH4S amp. The Hydra performed much better than any of the Marshalls, it produced some Tony Iommy-like metallic sound with more depth and faster edge. XXIth Century Sabbath, enough to say. The only problem was losing balance a little when low riffs arrived but I liked the mid-rangey sound so we kept the amp and just for curiosity, checked the EHX M44 + AMT M1 micro rig with the same speaker.
We recorded all the different amps so the differences were instant and clear. Quite shockingly, considering recorded sound, the EHX+AMT combo outperformed both native Marshalls: much better definition (considering chords, the best among ANY amps we tried during the session) and the lack of any unwanted attributes and sponginess: highs were articulate without being either harsh or damp, lows were defined without losing depth or starting to fart out, mids roared like you would suspect from a Marshall amp. The tiny EHX power amp sounded smoother and fuller than the EL34 power amp of the SL-X (we plugged the AMT into that, just for checking all the options). The difference was not huge but big enough that separates good from great, slightly problematic tone from naturally good. The voicing and overall balance of the AMT pedal is awesome when it comes to recording. We kept discussing what is best for the band's overall sound and the SP Hydra supported it better so we kept the SP. Continued soundcheck with a Diezel Herbert head.
The depth of the Herbert was great, you could kill elephants with those lows and lo-mids but even with rolled back gain, it turned chords into noise. It sounded damn tight during the palm muted riffs. If our music was about palm muted riffs only, the Herbert would be a great option. Otherwise, we skipped it after a couple of minutes because its lack of definition on the majority of sounds. The next one was one of my fav workhorses (I love to work with the recorded sound of the amp), Engl Powerball.
Chord definition was awesome and the lows were immense and defined but the SP Hyrda had faster edge and more open sound. We tried to find the sweet spot, made A/B test. The SP won.
Just for curiosity and possible option for using an another component amp that pushes the lows a little where the SP seemed to lose power, we put a Peavey 6505+ (modded / biased for EL34 tubes instead of 6L6) on the top. By that time, the Peavey on Engl on Hydra on Diezel tower became a rather instabile pile. After a few seconds, we realised that all that we missed from any of the previous amps is there: consistency both for frequencies (without being too low or harsh) and definition, great balance overall and all the parts sounded defined and articulate, even where the SP Hydra lacked. On the red channel and gain somewhere below hafways, we had the deep, open and edgy metal sound we needed. It is a rather big surprise for me. I've never played a 6505, only 5150 and 5150 II. Perhaps because of 6L6 tubes, I missed something from the midrange and there was too much buzz for me. I always loved to listen to other players playing through them but I could not get a working sound for myself. Also, I've heard a number of 6505 amps onstage in various bands but the sound was not mine. Maybe the EL34 tubes on a Peavey front or perhaps I play riffs a little different from these guys I heard that make the difference, I dont't know.
So, we had this amp set to kill that is virtually as far from my needs as a Recto (again, I love to listen to the sound and record other players with a Recto but it's not my player, you see my point) with the perfect sound that our band needed while all the ones failed that should have worked. Listening to the full and balanced sound coming from the speakers, I was thinking, why the heck haven't I tried a 6505 amp before? In the studio I was always into a similar fullness but used different amps that pushed their parts well and let other amps to cover their weaknesses. Now this one did it all, right out of the box. We had the right amp, only needed to check some cabs. An Engl Pro / V30 cab was the most impressive through the recording gear so the rig was set. We had a consistent rhythm sound that - surprise! - was not liquid enough for the solos and it was way too heavy for that I missed something from the midrange, none of the boosters cured that. All what we left was the Korg G1.
Surprise... The synth-like liquidness of this old distortion processor was a great and immediate solution for solos. We just plugged the line out directly into the desk and recorded the necessary parts along with the 6505+ and decided to live happily with that.
After that point, the re-amping itself of the whole album was ready in a couple of hours
We have just returned from a re-amping session for our new album that produced some strange twists. As far as it seems, tonewise the "end of the road" doesn't exist and sometimes nothing is what it seems. This is not about feel or response or onstage fun, only about solid facts: running the very same signal into different amps that go into the same cab.
As for some prelude, we decided to give the fate of our 3rd album into the hands of the producer / sound engineer of the 1st album, Zoltan 'Pici' Varga. During the years that passed since 2004, he built and impressive studio called "Supersize Recordings" and true to the name, the place is armed to teeth with top-notch recording gear and is full of great sounding, spacious rooms. As we arranged our work plan, we decided that the best would be recording all the guitars (my good old Duncanised Warmoth LPS) as DI line level here in my studio through my AMEK CIB that can be re-amped with a much wider array of microphones, mic preamps, guitar cabs and amps that I can dig up here.
At the day of re-amping, I carried 2 of my all-times fav Marshall heads to the session, a 50W JCM800 MKII Lead and a JCM900 SL-X 2500. Just for fun and showing my new floorboard to Pici, I carried my EHX 44M + AMT M1 micro rig there and a Korg G1 that have always worked as some kind of safety belt for me. That's my lucky voodoo stompbox or something. The cab was my old Laney Klipp 4x12" Greenback beast and a small 1x12" G12T-75 cab as a part of my spine-friendly rig.
During the sound check, the basic idea was to find a sound that is right without any post-processing. The first important decision was to replace the Greenback cab with V30 cabs. Despite my love for the good old Greens, their true vintage sound did not support the band style through the rec gear well enough. Onstage it's an integral part of our sound but recorded it just wasn't aggressive enough. After switching to a Laboga 4x12" V30 cab (rather nice one I can tell) both Marshalls performed pretty well where they supposed to do that: the upper mid-range. As we tried to find the sound that suits the production best, the JCM800 produced very articulate lows and sound in general at a moderate gain (pre gain around 2 o'clock) but the gain was too low for the style of the band. The JCM800 started to lose definition above that point and produced a somewhat spongy yet harsh highs that we could not cure with the EQ/PRESENCE. Tried boost pedals but besides boosting a certain part of the sound carpet, every and each one bit a component out of the whole that was missed. The sound was nice overall but it was too moderate for the sound that we wanted to hear. We switched to the JCM900 SL-X.
The SL-X produced much better sound for the band but mic'ed it was still too moderate. When the cascade gain started to have the quick edge that I wanted to hear, it lost the low end. At the point where it started to kick the lows, it lost the edge/attack and definition. The metal sound that I'm after is both biting and kicking. We tried hard but after going all the way between the possible sounds, it was impossible to find a good balance. Plus, it suffered from a similar 'harsh sponginess' as the JCM800: it sounded great with one-note and palm mute riffs but whenever I hit an open chord it started to wash together everything and lose definition, even with decreased gain. All my fav amps and my beloved cab were out of the game. Dry facts killed them.
Anyway, the job needed to be done. There were other amps around in the studio that we started to test, searching for a working solution. The first amp we tried was an SP Hydra custom amp. SP is a small manufacturer in my country that is specialised on high-end guitar amps. The Hydra is a co-op with SP and Mr Hackman, who had a finger (or two) in the development of the famous Diezel VH4S amp. The Hydra performed much better than any of the Marshalls, it produced some Tony Iommy-like metallic sound with more depth and faster edge. XXIth Century Sabbath, enough to say. The only problem was losing balance a little when low riffs arrived but I liked the mid-rangey sound so we kept the amp and just for curiosity, checked the EHX M44 + AMT M1 micro rig with the same speaker.
We recorded all the different amps so the differences were instant and clear. Quite shockingly, considering recorded sound, the EHX+AMT combo outperformed both native Marshalls: much better definition (considering chords, the best among ANY amps we tried during the session) and the lack of any unwanted attributes and sponginess: highs were articulate without being either harsh or damp, lows were defined without losing depth or starting to fart out, mids roared like you would suspect from a Marshall amp. The tiny EHX power amp sounded smoother and fuller than the EL34 power amp of the SL-X (we plugged the AMT into that, just for checking all the options). The difference was not huge but big enough that separates good from great, slightly problematic tone from naturally good. The voicing and overall balance of the AMT pedal is awesome when it comes to recording. We kept discussing what is best for the band's overall sound and the SP Hydra supported it better so we kept the SP. Continued soundcheck with a Diezel Herbert head.
The depth of the Herbert was great, you could kill elephants with those lows and lo-mids but even with rolled back gain, it turned chords into noise. It sounded damn tight during the palm muted riffs. If our music was about palm muted riffs only, the Herbert would be a great option. Otherwise, we skipped it after a couple of minutes because its lack of definition on the majority of sounds. The next one was one of my fav workhorses (I love to work with the recorded sound of the amp), Engl Powerball.
Chord definition was awesome and the lows were immense and defined but the SP Hyrda had faster edge and more open sound. We tried to find the sweet spot, made A/B test. The SP won.
Just for curiosity and possible option for using an another component amp that pushes the lows a little where the SP seemed to lose power, we put a Peavey 6505+ (modded / biased for EL34 tubes instead of 6L6) on the top. By that time, the Peavey on Engl on Hydra on Diezel tower became a rather instabile pile. After a few seconds, we realised that all that we missed from any of the previous amps is there: consistency both for frequencies (without being too low or harsh) and definition, great balance overall and all the parts sounded defined and articulate, even where the SP Hydra lacked. On the red channel and gain somewhere below hafways, we had the deep, open and edgy metal sound we needed. It is a rather big surprise for me. I've never played a 6505, only 5150 and 5150 II. Perhaps because of 6L6 tubes, I missed something from the midrange and there was too much buzz for me. I always loved to listen to other players playing through them but I could not get a working sound for myself. Also, I've heard a number of 6505 amps onstage in various bands but the sound was not mine. Maybe the EL34 tubes on a Peavey front or perhaps I play riffs a little different from these guys I heard that make the difference, I dont't know.
So, we had this amp set to kill that is virtually as far from my needs as a Recto (again, I love to listen to the sound and record other players with a Recto but it's not my player, you see my point) with the perfect sound that our band needed while all the ones failed that should have worked. Listening to the full and balanced sound coming from the speakers, I was thinking, why the heck haven't I tried a 6505 amp before? In the studio I was always into a similar fullness but used different amps that pushed their parts well and let other amps to cover their weaknesses. Now this one did it all, right out of the box. We had the right amp, only needed to check some cabs. An Engl Pro / V30 cab was the most impressive through the recording gear so the rig was set. We had a consistent rhythm sound that - surprise! - was not liquid enough for the solos and it was way too heavy for that I missed something from the midrange, none of the boosters cured that. All what we left was the Korg G1.
Surprise... The synth-like liquidness of this old distortion processor was a great and immediate solution for solos. We just plugged the line out directly into the desk and recorded the necessary parts along with the 6505+ and decided to live happily with that.
After that point, the re-amping itself of the whole album was ready in a couple of hours
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