The Most Hearty EL84's

ItsaBass

ItsaBass

New member
My Mesa (under 1 y/o) keeps toasting its Mesa EL84's. It has been into the Boogie store twice already, and completely checks out internally. Their verdict: faulty tubes...and supposedly the guys at the factory aren't that surprised. However, there's nothing they can really do about it except continuing to replace the shorted tubes.

Now that my tube warranty period is over, each time I have the problem, it'll cost $30. At this point, I'm so frustrated that I want to try different tubes, warranty be damned. The amp is useless to me for gigging, as experience with the amp has shown me that a tube might short at any time.

So, are there any "heavy duty" EL84's still being made?

Thanks.
 
Re: The Most Hearty EL84's

I had very good luck with JJs in a Blues JR...and they are notorious for being hard on tubes.
 
Re: The Most Hearty EL84's

I don't think it's the amp, but more so the nature of an EL84 tube these days. From what I've read, it's not just an issue with Mesa, but several different amps. The small bottles just don't hold on for dear life like their bigger counterparts. The common consensus seems to be what Joe said, get JJ's, but some people complain that their a little to dark and lose some of the high end the EL84 is known for.
 
Re: The Most Hearty EL84's

their verdict is they are repeatedly selling you (or giving you) faulty tubes? warranty or not, they should sell ones that work right if that's the case.
 
Re: The Most Hearty EL84's

I've been using EH EL84's and they've been great. Real good grind and very durable in my Jet City
 
Re: The Most Hearty EL84's

It's the amp.
I had a buddy who's LSS kept eating its power tubes.
He eventually traded it for a Fender.
 
Re: The Most Hearty EL84's

I'm by no means an amp expert. There's several here that I'd digress to on that topic. If it really is the amp that's eating the tubes, and it's checking out fine w/ Mesa, then it's probably the tubes they're giving you. My guess would be the amp is checking out within their spec, but the bias on your amp is probably to hot (or cold if that's a possibility) for their tubes to handle. If that's the case, then yes, they need to replace your tubes for free.

I own several Mesa products, all of which are way outta of warranty and they've been nothing but awesome to me. Even offered to check one of my amps out for free at one time, but we managed to get it figured out over the phone. I can't see them not standing by their products.
 
Re: The Most Hearty EL84's

What amp is it? At $30 for a power tube replacement, I'm guessing it's a Mini Rec or Express 5:25?
Mesa seems to bias their EL84 amps really hot and all other amps really cold.
The only Mesa I have left is a DC-3 combo (still looking for a Heartbreaker combo out here). I did a bias mod on it and now the tubes run much cooler.

If it is the amp, it is most likely just biased too hot. This might be fixable by simply not buying Mesa tubes. I used to keep a set of Mesa tubes around, just in case I needed warranty work that I could not do and had to send an amp back to the mothership. I used to be a Mesa tech though, so all in all, I only sent 1 amp back in many years of working on them. It was a very poorly modified and beaten Mark IV, the owner wanted it completely restored and I just didn't want the job.....

Usually, it's the way the tubes are shipped. I have found that tubes that are shipped to me (especially EL84's) without bubble wrap or packing peanuts at the very least, simply fail prematurely. Some guys just throw some paper in the box, put some tubes in it and tape it up. That just doesn't work.

I used to swear by Eurotubes, but the last 4 or 5 orders (over the last 4 or 5 years) have all come just wrapped in paper and on a few occasions I have had complete failure of all preamp tubes in a set! Given that it takes a week to get here and that people need their amps, I just don't have time for that kind of crap.

I usually use one of these guys for tubes. I feel that they offer the best quality vs. price vs. service:
http://tubedepot.com/ (these guys seem very accommodating and I have had no complaints from customers)(fast shipping and they listen to me when I ask for bubble wrap)
http://www.thetubestore.com/ (these guys are great, they are in Canada though, so shipping to me is a bit more)
http://www.dougstubes.com/ (these guys are great too, but I don't like their Mesa preamp tube suggestions)

I also always use dampener rings on my power tubes in combos. Since I have started using these, I have gotten much more mileage out of my power tubes!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Vacuum-T...pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2ec6b7acb3

All pre-coffee meandering/rambling aside, I like JJ's. I have a set of Sovteks in my DC right now, but they sound a bit cold and harsh. I just got a set of JJ's from Doug's Tubes the other day, but haven't had time to put them in yet.
I think if you call any of the above mentioned guys and tell them what tones you are looking for and advise them of your problem, they can fix you right up. Like I said, hang on to a set of Mesa tubes for warranty stuff, but use JJ's and you'll be very happy. Mesa has been using JJ's, but I just don't like the way that they choose bias levels. Any of these other guys can set you up with a set of tubes that should work with your amp very well.

Also, keep in mind that if you constantly crank the amp, you will constantly be needing power tubes. The harder you work them, the faster they die, but the better they sound.......:D
 
Re: The Most Hearty EL84's

I'm dying to try the Mullard RI EL84's, but my JJ's just won't wear out. I guess that answers your question.
 
Re: The Most Hearty EL84's

JJ's are cheap, sound pretty damn good and they last a good long time. I am using an almost NOS set of RFT's in my Orange TT, they sound incredible, loads of harmonics and great high volume breakup. I figured they wouldn't last, but they won't die. They were 50 bucks for the pair but the are worth every penny. You may want to check out some old stock tesla or RFT's. NOS or almost NOS EL84's can be had for not too much $$.
 
Re: The Most Hearty EL84's

Any thoughts on Telams? I have a pair I could swipe from my Ampeg...but I like them a lot, and I don't want to toast them if it turns out they're not very heavy duty.

FWIW, my Mesa is biased for the black-coded tubes.
 
Re: The Most Hearty EL84's

gibson175 said:
perhaps you could get the amp modified for adjustable biasing?
Click to expand...

=============================

AFAIK :

All tube amps have a bias adjustment potentiometer .
.

A skilled service tech can find it and with the amps schematic the bias voltage is shown on the schematic . Once that knowledge is established a tech can match the specs to calibrate the amps bias voltage :D .

If the problem is not cured and you keep blowin tubes :bigeyes:- - - - :guilty: Dump that amp and start over .


Easy man :

Hurricane Ramon
 
Re: The Most Hearty EL84's

Mesa's bias is fixed. It will have to be modified to have bias voltage set with a potentiometer (modified to be adjustable bias).
 
Re: The Most Hearty EL84's

LReese said:
Mesa's bias is fixed. It will have to be modified to have bias voltage set with a potentiometer (modified to be adjustable bias).
Click to expand...

Also, not all Mesa amps are easy to add a bias pot too. For the years, I put a bias pot in every Mesa amp that came across my bench. Now, I don't think it's necessary. There are so many great tube vendors out there that can sell you a set of power tubes that will work and sound much better than your stock tubes.
Mesa has odd ideas about bias points. The DC-3 is renowned for getting WAY too hot under normal operating conditions. It also cooks power tubes. If I use Mesa branded tubes, they don't last very long. When I use JJ's from a good vendor, and I tell them that my amp's bias point is a little high, they last a very long time.

Like I said earlier, the dampener rings keep my tubes from premature rattle death as well. I swear by them.
 
Re: The Most Hearty EL84's

LReese said:
Mesa's bias is fixed. It will have to be modified to have bias voltage set with a potentiometer (modified to be adjustable bias).
Click to expand...

Just for the record, no mesa amps have fixed bias. They are all cathode biased, and must be modded to fixed​ bias.
 
Re: The Most Hearty EL84's

Agileguy_101 said:
Just for the record, no mesa amps have fixed bias. They are all cathode biased, and must be modded to fixed​ bias.
Click to expand...

Sorry man, gotta call BS on that!
Only some of their amps are Cathode bias. They usually call these amps, "Class A," which they are not. Some of their newer models have a true Class A setting which turns off all but one power tube. The Maverick comes to mind, it is called Class A, but is simply cathode biased.

The rest of them are fixed bias. True fixed bias that is not adjustable without a mod. There is no way that a Recto or a Mark can get that much overdrive and be cathode biased. I've tried and failed to get that much gain out of one of their amps after installing cathode bias.
 
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