The search for the perfect PAF continues.

[CarlosG]

Hi!
Recently I asked about a PAF that has two rows of adjustable screws polepieces, It turned out to be difficult to implement, so I gave up.
Knowing that I have to make some compromises, I am interested in the normal PAF offer.
I care about versatility, I will mainly play Hard Rock and 80's heavy and thrash metal, but I also like blues and sometimes jazz.
Gary Moore was able to cover all areas with his PAFs, so it is possible.
It doesn't need a high output, everything has a lot of gain these days.
PAFs are known for their great dynamics, and best volume knob cleaning on distortion.
PAFs has top end, as opposed to the high outputs which seem to be muddy.
Apart from dynamics, the only thing I care about is tight bass.
From the many demos I've seen, the Duncan 59 seems great. Low output, tight low end, and bright aggressive tone.
Look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7USw3vMyPOg&t=496s&ab_channel=ZachWish
I've also read a lot of good things about the Pearly Gates. It's also a copy of the 59 PAF, but with Alnico II and I'm afraid of a muddy low end, but muny people says it is very bridght.
Guy on the video comes very close to the sound of George Lynch,
The moment from 0:48 made an impression on me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf-qKbOgi8I&ab_channel=JockeLundgrenTV

I also listened to a comparison of the 16 Sweetwater humbuckers.
https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/humbucker-pickups-you-need-to-hear/
The best sounding is the Mojotone '59 Clone. I've ruled that out for lack of wax, but I suspect the Duncan '59 is close.
Second place went to Pearly Gates and Dimarzio 36 Anniversary.
I'm not a fan of Dimarzio humbuckers, because I've had a few instances where the coils were bent with their edges facing up.
But they were all second-hand, so I don't want to dismiss 36 Anniversary.
What do you think about the mentioned pickups?
Is something worth adding to the list?
I rejected the APH-1 due to the opinions of the dull tone. Although the Slash achieved a great sound, they do not seem to be appreciated.​
​

 

['59]

Hey there! I read your previous thread. I think the thing to remember is that pickups, while important, are just one part of the equation when it comes to tone—technique, amp settings, and other gear play just as big a role. You’re right about Gary Moore; he was able to make any PAF work for his sound, and a lot of that comes down to his touch and how he dialed things in. He probably could play just as versatile with any ol passive humbucker.

When it comes to pickups like the Duncan '59, Pearly Gates, or others, they can all do the job you're after—hard rock, 80's metal, blues, and jazz—especially with good technique and the right amp settings. Even a hotter humbucker can cover a lot of ground if you conttol your attack. The key is learning how to really use your volume knob and the dynamics of your playing. A pickup like the Duncan '59 does have that tight low end, but ultimately, how much bass it sounds like you’re getting will depend a lot on how you play it and what gear you're running it through. The Pearly Gates might feel a little more mid-forward because of the Alnico II, but again, how much you notice that depends on your technique and how you dial in your rig. And just to throw it out there, if you’re playing with a lot of gain, you might not hear as much of the "muddy low end" you’re concerned about.

As for the APH-1, I get that people have mixed feelings about it, but remember, a lot of tone comes down to how you approach it. If you’re comfortable with how a certain pickup feels and how you can shape your tone with it, then it’ll be right for you.

So my advice would be: try not to overthink it too much. PAFs in general, especially those low-output types, are versatile and dynamic, and with good technique, they can give you everything you’re looking for. Keep in mind that other factors, like amp settings and pedal choice, play a big part in dialing in the tone you're after.

Hopefully this answers most of your questions. In short, don't over think it

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I usually go through phases with pickups. I've had a few times where I was digging lower output pickups. My favorites were the Duncan '59B, the DiMarzio PAF Pro, and the Fishman Fluence Classic.

I also tried the Whole Lotta Humbucker, and it was alright. It wasn't bad, it was good, but it wasn't "better" to me than the Plain Jane '59, and it was more expensive.

I didn't like the Slash. I tried the bridge position one, and I was expecting it to be fat and hot, but it was neither. I was hugely disappointed.

I thought the Burstbucker Pro was good too, but again, not "better" than the '59, and more expensive.

The Burstbucker 3 was cool. Has kind of a high mid voicing that reminds me of the JB, just all-around thinner.

But the '59 is just all-around good. It's broad and open, and it's very reactive to pick attack. It sounds super aggressive when you pick hard, but the bottom end is always bold and firm and not spongy like some A2 pickups can be. The PAF Pro is kind of beefier and more attacky. Great alternative too. The Fluence Classic is along the lines as well, but has the added benefit that you can basically turn it into a JB if you pull on the tone knob to change the voicing.

Take this as a grain of salt, though. My perspective comes from trying to play high-gain chuggy riffs through these pickups.

 

[ehdwuld]

glancing over the OP

the Dimarzio PAF pro has two rows of adjustable poles
they use an hex head screw but all of those styles do

I think some time back Allen Holdsworth had a SD Pickup with two rowa of slotted screws

Carvin made Holdsworth pickups with dual screws

all of these sound suprisingly similar to me

what are you expecting from the sound of the pickup that you are having trouble finding?

 

[gsammo79]

If you like the low end on the Duncan '59 then id go for it. You're not gonna find many--hardly any-- PAF replicas with a solid low end. At least I didn't.

I had the same request a few years ago and had to get a custom pickup done by a small shop out of Florida. Their prices aren't ridiculous either

 

[jeremy]

gary moore used an slo100 for a while and got some great tones with pafs and vintage output strats. the 59 set is a great set of pups, takes mag swaps well, and can usually be found easily used for a fair price. the stock a5 has a good bottom and top, a3 neck and a2 bridge is a great combo as well

 

[gimmieinfo]

Ihave a set of pearly gates that i am currenty tryng to decide whether to keep over the probuckers in my 50s epi IBG. I have also and then sold the mojo 59 clones and i beg to differ on those....i found the low end muddier then either the pearlies or the probuckers and found little to like about them. Subjective of course but thats my take. I think the pearlies has a pretty tight low end, or at least as tight as pretty much anything i've used but i haven't tried the SD 59s.I'm not so sure A5 gives tight lows because they can have excessive lows that end up sounding muddy or woofy and can be hard to dial out at least in my experience. Like u my main concern is dynamics both in how it responds to pick attack and how it cleans up with the volume. (i always use treble bleeds) The pearlies have to be rolled down to about 3 to clean up on the knob to get as clean as the probuckers do at 5. But thier cleanER sounds, particularly the edge of distortion tones are clearer and more tight. U didnt say what guitar but i'm talking about a LP standard. I removed the peralies and put the probuckers back, then tonite threw the PGs back in again. I can't make up my mind because they are both excellent different ways. From what you describe i would probably say try the PGs for a really organic natural classic rock tone as long as the guitar is not too bright. If it is the probuckers are great, but the problem there is you can't find them anywhere except epiphone still sells the PB 2&3 set which is hotter. Mine are the 1&2 which are an]about the same as the PGs. A set of gibson classic 57s would be very similar i believe. But i guess the one piece of advice i would give is don't put the Ps in a bright LP. I tried that and it turned into a strat as far as fullness/thickness. Unusable. I would also stay away from A5 in the neck because every one of those i tried was boomy. A2 is much better balanced from high to low IMO.

 

[Masta' C]

I'm not going to read through everything here, but just glancing at the first post, it seems the answer is fairly simple:

Have your dealer order a '59 model as a "shop floor custom" with double screw coils and be done with it!

Alternatively, look for a Suhr DSV or DSV+, which come stock in the double-screw configuration.

 

[freefrog]

My experience being that 1) what counts is matching between pickups and guitars (+ the whole rig) and 2) pickups of a "same" model can sound different according to their era/age, my opinion is that YT vids are defintively to take tongue in cheek.

I've not tried the Mojotone set aforementioned. I've played (AND lab tested) the other models.

59? I really like my SH1's from the early 80s. Recent ones have been more "generic" IME but remain a solid reliable reference, of course. PGs have that pointy resonant peak that I've mentioned a thousand times here and sound accordingly, with something of a single coil in their EQing. APH have a flatter resonance: it makes them bassier than PG's but not especially "dull" unless the rig used is not set to suit 'em. And even if they seem dull, mag / parts swapping can be rewarding.
36th are to me like Aspartame compared to sugar. Those that I've tested in person had some pronounced secondary resonant peaks, causing a drone effect around 11khz with the neck PU. I'd rather mount a vintage DP103: they weren't really convincing P.A.F. clones but had a simpler structure and could be nice sounding in some guitars.

The most convincing P.A.F. clones that I've at disposal are a pair of boutique humbuckers made with NOS parts and mounted in my LP number one. Mileages may vary.

 

[nienturi]

I have never played a PAF before. But tested many copies from many brands. Some of my favourites are (without order);
-) Mojotone '59 Clone Hot and '59 Clone neck: Awesome set. Clear yet warm tone.
-) Dimarzio PAF: I have one from mid 70s or late 70s and it sounds awesome.
-) Dimarzio Air Classic: Classic PAF tone without fancy gimmicks
-) Duncan Seth Lover: they are one of the best PAF replicas from Duncan along with antiquities
-) Duncan 59: Great pickup. But swapping A5 to A4 is handy.
-) Dimarzio Virtual Hot PAF: Not a classic PAF but i do like Hot PAFs and VHP is along with Brobucker is my favourite bridge humbuckers.

 

[Mincer]

The Antiquities and Seths are my favorite PAFs. If they are ordered with 4 conductor wire, they even sound good split.

 

[jeremy]

i have a set of 4 cond seths, and the split sound is fine, but they currently are just wired normally and they sound fantastic

 

[GuitarStv]

I don't find the tone from split PAFs to be all that great - they are too bright/weak.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I don't find the tone from split PAFs to be all that great - they are too bright/weak.

I agree.

 

[Mincer]

I don't find the tone from split PAFs to be all that great - they are too bright/weak.

When you combine it with another split PAF (that is in phase and humbucking), it is fantastic.

 

[jeremy]

i find the split paf useful for live stuff at times. i usually have the amp turned up enough that, while it does thin out, it isnt too bright or weak. thats not always the case of course.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Freefrog nailed the most significant issue, though: Especially with vintage output pickups, it's not about which is better- it's about which suits a particular guitar best.

One big plus of the Duncan 59s is that they aren't picky - IME they've sounded good anywhere I've put them.
Another plus: they're fairly true to the character of whatever guitar they're in - they don't impose as much of their own personality as PGs or DiMarzios.
Also, SH-1s take magnet swaps very well indeed. They were my test bed when first experimenting with mag swaps.

Are 59s my favorite PAF types? No. But they're forgiving, relatively inexpensive, and widely available.
(I have to admit, I like the old black-magnet 59s a little better myself.)

~

My personal favorites in the PAF category aren't as easy to come by.
A handful are from boutique winders Zhangbucker or ReWind, mostly custom one-offs but also a few standard models.
PRS 57/08 set are amazingly vintagey (the 59/09s are pretty darn good too, though not quite as uncannily 3-D.)
Tom Holmes 450/455 set
Wizz 'GregBilly' set, a limited run from a few years ago
Wizz regular PAF replicas, very very nice
Wolfetone Dr Vintage set (really like his Marshallhead bridge too)
Sheptone Tribute set, partly degaussed A5 mags in these I think
Also a set of Jim Wagner's Godwoods - I don't own those anymore but I sure loved 'em.

Again, what I love about these is the way they respond and sound in specific individual guitars. I sort of feel like the more unique the personality of pickups and guitar separately, the more risk of mismatch when they're paired together. Not the result of deep reflection. But I'd argue it over a beer.​

 

[CarlosG]

Perhaps I will digress a bit.
I have read several times on the forum that Custom/59 Hybrid, has higher power, but still has dynamic.
Does this mean it has more power and dynamic range like PAF, or does it lose dynamic?

 

[Mincer]

Perhaps I will digress a bit.
I have read several times on the forum that Custom/59 Hybrid, has higher power, but still has dynamic.
Does this mean it has more power and dynamic range like PAF, or does it lose dynamic?

The Hybrid is about the closest pickup outside of the Custom Shop that hits that sweet spot.

 

[Masta' C]

The '59 in the bridge is a great all around pickup. Plenty of people have used it for rock, metal, jazz, blues, etc.

The hybrid gives you a bit more punch and tightness than the '59 with a little of that PAF flavor thrown in. Both can be very dynamic, but it could be argued that neither are quite as dynamic as a lower output wind. That said, I think they are as dynamic as most players would ever need and can be very expressive.

At some point, you just need to pull the trigger on one of these and then figure out if it's doing what you want or not. Until then, you're just shooting in the dark.