The tale of two Full Shred's

[STLMTLHD79]

So, a couple of months ago, i had Full Shred pickups installed into two late 80s Charvel's. I had a used one from 2008 with white bobbins installed into a Charvel 750xl. It sounds like total ****-thin, clank-y and without any balls. On the other hand, i had a late 80s MJ wound version installed into a Charvel Model 88 and it sounds MASSIVE!!!! Thick, vibrant, lots of low end and amazing harmonics.

So, my question or statement is this. Either the mystique about MJ is true or a 500k tone pot really negatively affects the tone of the pickup.

Mind you the Charvel model 88 has just one 500k volume pot and nothing else. Would a tone pot really affect the tone of the pickup that much?

 

[AlexR]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

A tone pot will not affect the pickup overly......especially a 500k one. You do add some bite to the tone, as a tone circuit does roll off slightly the top-end even at 10, but its not a game changing alteration - go no-load tone-pot thats about the only way you'll be able to tell just playing tone vs no tone.
And of course your 'thicker richer' guitar is the one you say has no tone circuit - which is sort of opposite to what the overall effect would be.
You've not said what your volume pot in the thin-toned guitar is

There are a few changes that have occurred since the 80's in terms of pickups made by Duncan. The JB is one that has changed, the 59 is now essentially a different pickup entirely, Alnico 2 pro's have drifted up in K reading, so its possible your old FS has some differences.

If you want to check it out - try swapping them between guitars......to see how the pickup and guitar interaction changes things.

 

[gregory]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

Wood and guitar construction can and will make a massive difference.

How about...

A degaussed magnet? Different pole piece material? Different batch of wire? Compromised insulation? Do we have a DCR comparison of the pickups disconnected from their relative circuits?

There are all sorts of things besides the "mythical MJ wind" which I believe is just that: a myth. FWIW, I own several MJ-wound pickups. I should probably cash in someday.

 

[Farkus]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

I have a Full Shred I have moved between 2 different guitars. The difference in the sound is huge. I really liked it in an Ash Strat where it sounds like a beefy, hum free with 'single coil' character but it sounds really weak in an Alder super strat. To the point I wasn't even interested in trying to tweak it further. If there's this kind of difference with the same pickup...my only conclusion is that the guitar itself is a major factor and it's entirely possible you don't have a bum pickup. I'd still pull both out and put them on a meter though and do a little comparision.

 

[dystrust]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

+1 on checking the DCR.

Since the white one is used I wonder if it's a Full Shred neck instead of the bridge model? I would expect it to be bright, thin, and a bit weak if installed in the bridge position.

 

[STLMTLHD79]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

The 80s MJ wound one is in a no-tone pot Charvel Model 88-just one 500k volume pot. The thin sounding more modern Full Shred resides in a 1989 Charvel 750xl, what has been dubbed the "Les Paul Killer"....it has a 500k volume and a 500k tone pot. The 750xl is supposed to sound great with this pickup so it maybe a case of a bad mag like said above. I dont think the mag is degaussed. The output seems correct but i have not tested it in either guitar in terms of DCR.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

The very first pickup I traded for on this forum was an MJ wound JB. At the time, nobody gave two craps if a pickup was wound by MJ or not, and they sold for the same price as any Duncan pickup. Even then, I frequently raved about how great it sounded. In that time, I also hand an MJ Full Shred. Killer pickup.

I believe the hype.

 

[gregory]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

I have an MJ and non MJ Custom: they sound the same.
I have an MJ and non MJ JB: they sound the same.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

I have an MJ and non MJ Custom: they sound the same.
I have an MJ and non MJ JB: they sound the same.

Awesome.

I had an MJ wound JB and several non-MJ JBs. They did not sound the same.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

I have three MJ pickups; a Jazz Bridge, Demon, and JB. They all sound great, but I've never been able to compare directly in the same guitar to equivalent models. Do need to find a home for the Jazz, though...

 

[SrDeMaFp]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

A tone pot will not affect the pickup overly......especially a 500k one. You do add some bite to the tone, as a tone circuit does roll off slightly the top-end even at 10, but its not a game changing alteration - go no-load tone-pot thats about the only way you'll be able to tell just playing tone vs no tone.
And of course your 'thicker richer' guitar is the one you say has no tone circuit - which is sort of opposite to what the overall effect would be.
You've not said what your volume pot in the thin-toned guitar is

There are a few changes that have occurred since the 80's in terms of pickups made by Duncan. The JB is one that has changed, the 59 is now essentially a different pickup entirely, Alnico 2 pro's have drifted up in K reading, so its possible your old FS has some differences.

If you want to check it out - try swapping them between guitars......to see how the pickup and guitar interaction changes things.

First I'm hearing about this. What exactly changed so the '59?

 

[AlexR]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

59 started as non potted with butyrate bobbins. Other posters who own a range of 59's from newer to older report a much more open pickup tonally, with later examples being a bit more 'polite' and the DCR shifted too from what I recall of the thread where I got the info.....I think they started off a bit more like what the Seths or Ant's are now.

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

Yeah, I would still put a multimeter up to that. Although pickups change per guitar, if one sounds massive, and the other super thin with no balls (and we ruled out the guitar being a dud) then I have a feeling something is wrong with the pickup or the wiring.

 

[Mincer]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

Well, the same model pickup will sound different in 2 different guitars, but get a meter on it to see if that one is working properly. I can't imagine differences in manufacturing could make a pickup sound so vastly different. I believe pickup models have changed over the years, but first let's rule out if something is wrong or not.

 

[jeremy]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

i dont really know of wind changes within models, although bobbin materials have changed and older pups seem to have roughcast magnets where newer ones have polished

 

[dystrust]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

i dont really know of wind changes within models, although bobbin materials have changed and older pups seem to have roughcast magnets where newer ones have polished

The biggest change I know of between an old and current JB or 59 is the change from roughcast to polished magnets. The change in bobbins may affect tone, but the magnet change will have a much larger effect IMO.

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

Would that carry over to the Full Shred, or was that roughcast to polished for certain models? Maybe thats the biggest contributing factor in this case.
How does a roughcast compare to a polished? Similar to what he is experiencing?

 

[gregory]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

Around what year did Seymour Duncan switch to polished magnets? IIRC, my JBJ from 1994 has a polished magnet.

Anyhow, we have potential changes in baseplates, bobbins, spacers and magnets, possibly changes in the winding (APH cited earlier). Lots of variables besides the person loading the machine and hitting the green button.

 

[dystrust]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

Would that carry over to the Full Shred, or was that roughcast to polished for certain models? Maybe thats the biggest contributing factor in this case.
How does a roughcast compare to a polished? Similar to what he is experiencing?

AFAIK it applies to all A5 pickups, but that's an educated guess.

To answer your second question, I doubt that accounts for the difference here as polished A5 typically has more output than rough cast in addition to being brighter and more scooped.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

[Masta' C]

Re: The tale of two Full Shred's

The difference between polished and roughcast is rather subtle. As dystrust said, the polished tends to be a bit brighter/strident while the roughcast softens the attack and treble bite ever-so-slightly. Output-wise, there's really not much of a difference if we're being honest here. There's a much larger difference in all these things between "Unoriented" A5's and your typical "oriented" A5's than merely being polished vs roughcast.

Also, there are many factors that could be playing into the case of the two Full Shreds being so different. "Thin, clanky and no b@11s" tells me first that something is probably wrong with the pickup or the installation (wiring, pots, solder joint, etc).

A degaussed mag was mentioned above...it's not overly common, but that could very likely be the case as well. Especially if the pickup was stored with other pickups, such as in the common "parts drawer" many of us have.

However, you should never underestimate the differences between the guitars themselves. It really can't be understated. What works in one guitar simply may not work in the next. We see this all the time...