The time has come to route *help?*

[Gardener]

Alright,...

So after all of the work, ordering parts refinishing the my Melody Maker it is time to route the body for the P-Rail pickup..

As I am sure you can imagine I am hesitant,.. I am still unsure exactly where the pickup should rest in relation to the bridge and the neck.

I plan to use a Schaller finetuning stopbar tailpiece. Pictures of everything to follow..

My question is this:... how important is the placement of the pickup as long as it is in line with the neck..?

I only have a Epiphone Genesis kicking around as a reference as they both have 22 frets and a neck which measures from the nut to 18"...

from the end of the neck it is just under another 6" to the end of the pickup and 5" to the center of the pickup.

Main differences being that the Genesis has a tune-o-matic bridge and a stopbar tailpiece. Whereas my Melody Maker will be using the Schaller Finetuning stopbar tailpiece..

If I keep the center of the P-Rail at 5" from the neck would I be good?

Should I move the bridge farther from the pickup?

Also should I move the bridge because the holes which are currently drilled are at an angle?

Many thanks!

Also, to clarify, I have done some heavy reading thus far, I've seen that quite a few people were mentioning the neck pickup in pickup placement discussions and the only mention I heard about the bridge pickup was that some people for humbucker or humbucker style pickups prefer them to be farther away from the bridge stating that it can sound tinny, whereas others said they prefer the pickup as close to the bridge as possible.

I've seen on average that people said the bridge should be 25" from the nut.

My main concern is routing the guitar out poorly, and my other concern is the style of tailpiece I chose and it potentially being an issue if it is at an angle.

 

[dominus]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

The bridge needs to be in a specific spot for intonation. The pickup position isn't as important.. closer to the bridge, the brighter it will sound.

 

[AlexR]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

Yep, many guitars have different positions for pickups, even with the same configuration and scale.

 

[Securb]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

If this is your first attempt at routing I would strongly suggest getting a humbucker routing template from Stewart MacDonald for $5. There is no way to hide the flaws under the pickguard on a Melody Maker, you want to get this right. You can't un-rout a guitar so you have one shot at this.

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tool...plates/Humbucker_Pickup_Routing_Template.html

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

Since your guitar is a 24.75" scale, I think I would place the bridge at 24.75".

The template is a very good idea...not too expensive, especially compared to buying another guitar if you screw it up.

 

[Gardener]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

Thank you, I did have another guitar a DeArmond that had a pickup cavity which fit the P-Rail pickup perfectly, so I did make a template from that and routed it out with the router using double sided tape and affixed the wood whilst routing to two other pieces of scrap wood as a base to raise it up so I wouldn't route the desk mistakenly..

So I have the template now, although I will with this guitar be making a pickguard from scratch, *hehe*, which will cover the pickup, the cavity for the cables which lead to the cavity and the cavity itself.. So, although I will do my best to make the routed pickup cavity as clean as possible the position is my main concern,...

Also last night whilst I lay in bed I thought,... do I need a tune-o-matic bridge since I am using a finetuning tailpiece which might not accommodate enough for intonation..?

Picture of the tailpiece below:
http://guitar-parts.biz/download/CY417454a4X127ba1e578aXY1df0/6___VC_Feinstimmer.jpg

Recently attached are pictures of the guitar, the pickup template, the tailpiece and the P-Rail pickup..

 

[AlexR]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

That tailpiece is just that, a tailpiece. Its not a wraparound or similar where there are saddles for intonation. That simply has some ability to tune from the body end. You will need to put the bridge in too.

But you still need to do a LOT of work before you even think of routing for the pickup. Find where your scale length is, plug holes for old bridge, locate the new tailpiece and install, put on tuners, string up, install bridge on some spacers so it can be moved back and forward at setup height (to find out the position it sits in at acceptable intonation), drill holes for bridge and install.

Then and only then can you take some measurements from other guitars.......from the location of the bridge to the pickup poles. Then transplant them either to the rail or the screws of the p90 (depending on how you want to install it) and find where the rout needs to be.

 

[ChAoZ]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

That tailpiece is just that, a tailpiece. Its not a wraparound or similar where there are saddles for intonation. That simply has some ability to tune from the body end. You will need to put the bridge in too.

But you still need to do a LOT of work before you even think of routing for the pickup. Find where your scale length is, plug holes for old bridge, locate the new tailpiece and install, put on tuners, string up, install bridge on some spacers so it can be moved back and forward at setup height (to find out the position it sits in at acceptable intonation), drill holes for bridge and install.

Then and only then can you take some measurements from other guitars.......from the location of the bridge to the pickup poles. Then transplant them either to the rail or the screws of the p90 (depending on how you want to install it) and find where the rout needs to be.

Well said Alex ,this is exactly right - mount bridge before any pickup routing

 

[AlexR]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

I've spotted another concern, and it affect your hardware choices.

If you have a separate bridge/tailpiece, the holes for the treble side tailpiece stud will be perilously close to the cavity rout. I would be struggling to recommend any such critical drilling where you'd have only a few scant mm to a rout - especially a control cavity one that is likely to be at least as deep as the stud hole drilling.
Not only that, you would then have to deal with the pickguard having to be cut around the bridge in such a way that you're most likely to be able to see into the cavity - not in the least bit a good look.

So, break out the credit card and buy a combination wrap tailpiece and intonation saddle type bridge. You'll probably still need to fill the old holes as the angle of the mounts will be different (most probably perpendicular to the centreline).

 

[Gardener]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

I've spotted another concern, and it affect your hardware choices.

If you have a separate bridge/tailpiece, the holes for the treble side tailpiece stud will be perilously close to the cavity rout. I would be struggling to recommend any such critical drilling where you'd have only a few scant mm to a rout - especially a control cavity one that is likely to be at least as deep as the stud hole drilling.
Not only that, you would then have to deal with the pickguard having to be cut around the bridge in such a way that you're most likely to be able to see into the cavity - not in the least bit a good look.

So, break out the credit card and buy a combination wrap tailpiece and intonation saddle type bridge. You'll probably still need to fill the old holes as the angle of the mounts will be different (most probably perpendicular to the centreline).

Whoa,... thats unfortunate.. because I am very much attached to the tailpiece... It was quite expensive..
I do have a spare tune-o-matic bridge kicking around and I have spare wood from when the extra horn was cut out that I could dremel and plug the previous holes with..

Also, I do still have the wraparound tailpiece which came with it which I could use as well.. but ideally I would like to add a bridge then and still use the tailpiece,.. I plan on installing the tuners asap..

I really appreciate you guys mentioning this prior to may routing.. you just saved me some tears..

Basically I was inspired by a friends guitar which was modified prior to his purchasing it, he was going to sell it and then hummed and hawed over the sale and decided after three weeks to retract the offer. So I decided to build my own but more to my specifications.. I've attached a picture of said guitar below..

 

[AlexR]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

If you can push the tailpiece further back then this sounds like the way to do it - obviously it will be a much bigger gap between the typical gibson bridge and tailpiece, but at least it will use the hardware you have.

Find the centreline of the guitar and look at the distance away from that you'd have to drill the tailpiece stud at. Mount the old scratchplate and find where you'd have to position the tailpiece to clear the edge of the scratchplate by 5mm or so.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

Sounds like a good, easy solution.

 

[Gardener]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

So then,.. since the holes are already drilled for the wraparound bridge if I get larger posts I should just be able to put the tune-o-matic bridge in the previously drilled holes yes?

 

[AlexR]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

I would fill and drill again. The bridge typically will have a narrower hole spacing, and the angle for the wraparound often is different to an ABR style. There also might be a slight offset, as with a wrap bridge the strings sit closer to the lower bout of the guitar once they wrapped around (compared to where they enter the bridge). Usually the mounting posts are drilled with a small offset form the centreline to account for this.

Then, as I mentioned in the above post, you should be only drilling the bridge once you've figured out where it will intonate correctly.

 

[Gardener]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

What have I gotten myself into...? Haha

I would fill and drill again. The bridge typically will have a narrower hole spacing, and the angle for the wraparound often is different to an ABR style. There also might be a slight offset, as with a wrap bridge the strings sit closer to the lower bout of the guitar once they wrapped around (compared to where they enter the bridge). Usually the mounting posts are drilled with a small offset form the centreline to account for this.

Then, as I mentioned in the above post, you should be only drilling the bridge once you've figured out where it will intonate correctly.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

You've gotten yourself into a very fun project and a great learning experience.

 

[Gardener]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

Agreed~

I am just deadly afraid of drilling holes.. haha!

You've gotten yourself into a very fun project and a great learning experience.

 

[daan]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

I had an LP-Jr that I put an intonatable bridge onto, (and put a neck pickup on but that may be another story...)

the original bridge was "slanted" and when I put the adjustable on (Tone-Pros AVT-2) the new bridge had smaller studs than the original, so I had to fill and redrill the holes. I just went right where they were originally, and the new bridge was too slanted. (The high E would pop out of it's slot, or buzz in its slot.) I should have made the bridge more perpendicular to the strings while I was drilling. Also with a guitar as old as yours, the original holes may be too big from changing bridges over the years, so even if they're in the right place, they may end up being too loose. It's just wood, you can always plug and redrill especially if your guitar isn't original anymore anyway. I've seen MM's and Jr's with several obvious sets of bridge holes. Worse comes to worst you can always veneer the top so the holes "dissapear".
And I hear you about being afraid of drilling, I sweated it A LOT before I started. But it's like getting that first dent in your shiny new car, once you're over that, you relax and it's a lot easier afterwards :naughty:

 

[Gardener]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

So if I decide not to drill holes and not use the Schaller Finetuning Tailpiece, because of the fact that holes are drilled at an angle certain combination tailpiece/bridges wouldn't be ideal? Is that a correct assumption?

..and if that is the case are there some combo bridge/tailpieces that a best suited to the posts being offset ?

 

[daan]

Re: The time has come to route *help?*

Sorry it took so long to reply, MOST tailpieces that go on studs have adjuster-screws so you can move them back and forth. On mine I had one pretty much all the way in, and the other most of the way out to get it more perpendicular to the strings. You MAY or MAY NOT need to worry about the bridge you have, it's just on mine the high E buzzed unless I had mine more square-on to the strings. ALso you may get lucky and the holes you already have might be the right size, and you won't need to drill anything anyway.