The Tonal Differences in Ceramic Magnets?

[HM_Stratocaster]

Hey guys, I am at this point very familiar with the tonal differences of AlNiCo magnets vs ceramic all the way up to AlNiCo VIII, but I have been informed that there are actually different types of ceramic magnets and they effect tone differently. Is there anyone who might be able to point these out to me? I'm coming up short when search engining the subject.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

There are different grades of ceramic magnets, but as far as I know you will almost always see C8 used in pickups, except for Rickenbacker and Lace which used some form of rubberized magnets.

Also the thickness of the magnet affects the strength. This is also true of alnico, but thicker alnico magnets are uncommon except in Filter’Trons.


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[Clint 55]

Tonal differences vs different ceramic grades?

Suck vs suck.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Suck vs suck.

There’s nothing wrong with ceramic magnets. They work better in high output pickups, unless you like mud. Also work great in bass pickups, gold foils, Tri-Sonics, Rickenbacker, etc.

It’s all how you design the pickups. Bill Lawrence always used ceramics. He used to say “magnets have no tone.”


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[HM_Stratocaster]

There’s nothing wrong with ceramic magnets. They work better in high output pickups, unless you like mud. Also work great in bass pickups, gold foils, Tri-Sonics, Rickenbacker, etc.

It’s all how you design the pickups. Bill Lawrence always used ceramics. He used to say “magnets have no tone.”


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I have to completely agree. I swapped an AlNiCo VIII in the Duncan Custom and the Duncan Distortion and I have to say as far as a high output magnet goes it really wasn’t an improvement in tone at all compared to the sweet crunchy linearity of the ceramic. If anything the 8 was overly microphonic.

 

[Clint 55]

^ That's because A8 sux too lol.

There's nothing wrong with ceramic magnets. They work better in high output pickups, unless you like mud. Also work great in bass pickups, gold foils, Tri-Sonics, Rickenbacker, etc.

It's all how you design the pickups.

I can't stand ceramics in full size humbuckers. They sound great to me in single coil size humbuckers for some reason.

 

[frankfalbo]

It’s all how you design the pickups. Bill Lawrence always used ceramics. He used to say “magnets have no tone.”

And he was wrong. Magnet types have an ADSR envelope that is present even if you compensate for the inductance and gauss strength.

 

[HM_Stratocaster]

And he was wrong. Magnet types have an ADSR envelope that is present even if you compensate for the inductance and gauss strength.

I should reiterate that I agree that you can make a good pickup with a ceramic magnet. Not that they have no tonal differences. I conducted an experiment with the Duncan Custom, Distortion, and Full-Shred In which I swapped in and out all the AlNiCo varieties including VIII and the ceramic that came in the Distortion with the exact same guitar/strings/pickup height/amplifier and there was clearly a difference. The one that disappointed me the most was the IV. It was so bland tonally that I see why it isn't used very often. It could be a really great jazz pickup if the windings were compensated, but in thinking the VIII was going to solve the impurity of the demonized ceramic magnet I learned that I actually quite like the way it sounds. There is a reason it is used. That being said. I've heard there are variations in the ceramic magnets. Like a C5 is more scooped and is what is used in the Dimebucker but a C8 is more commonly used and is more even sounding. I'm trying to see if anyone can verify that.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I had a discussion with someone pretty knowledgeable a year or two ago concerning C5 mags for a humbucker.
His experience was that with C5 the output was very low and the tone was not great.
So I never pursued the idea further.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

And he was wrong. Magnet types have an ADSR envelope that is present even if you compensate for the inductance and gauss strength.

Weaker magnets in a hot pickup sound like mush. That’s why I dislike JBs, especially clean. I’d take a L500XL over a JB any day. Even a Super Distortion. But some players like mud.

The ceramic gives you more top end and snap. But they can be warm and round too, look at Bartolini pickups as an example. It’s the coercivity of the magnets. Alnicos have a “softer†field.


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[freefrog]

And he was wrong. Magnet types have an ADSR envelope that is present even if you compensate for the inductance and gauss strength.

My extremely humble and indifferent opinion tends to agree. I also tend to think spontaneously that Ceramic VS AlNiCo didn't do much difference for Bill Lawrence because it didn't change much the behavior of... his own pickups.

At least that's what I think when I see his trick to prevent Foucault currents: thin steel blades, no baseplate...

That being said respectfully / peacefully and not at all to feed an argument.