THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

PS: Please forgive my somewhat antagonistic tone in the post above. I get annoyed by some of the more outlandish statements about the self-evident superiority of stomp boxes.


It's not that stomp boxes are necessarily superior, it's that there's a lot of them, with tones & nuances that can be hard to duplicate. Most of the bands I listen to are content with a good sounding amp & a few pedals. From my (limited) perspective, I'm not seeing a demand for multi-effects pedals, let alone pricey ones.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

It's not that stomp boxes are necessarily superior, it's that there's a lot of them, with tones & nuances that can be hard to duplicate. Most of the bands I listen to are content with a good sounding amp & a few pedals. From my (limited) perspective, I'm not seeing a demand for multi-effects pedals, let alone pricey ones.

That is true to a certain extent. I freely admit that there are far more stomp boxes out there than one can ever hope to be emulated digitally. I wonder, though, how many people are going to hear a difference between a high-end stomp box and a high-end multi-fx. Will a live audience be able to tell the difference between, say, whether I use a Roland Dimension D* or a digital modelling of one? Will I be able to tell? In both cases I landed firmly on no.

I would say that people who are content with "a good sounding amp & a few pedals", that is, who are not hunting very particular effect tones, are the ones who might have the most to gain from getting a quality multi-fx processor. It isn't that those tones are superior, but by now I would claim that they are not inferior either, and to me they seem enormously convenient to set up and use. It also allows for setting up effects in the fx loop without the hassles of using pedals – and I am sure than many a rig would benefit from this.

That being said, I can see some instances where pedals would still be needed. Overdrives and distortions often leave something to be desired even today, and the G-System quite simply did away with them. Such systems also will often place most effects in the loop by design. That is, strictly speaking, a "better" sound, but I can see many instances where one might want to have something like a phaser coloured by the preamp. Then there are effects that still aren't available in other formats. I think there are fewer of these than most would think, once one takes a look in the proverbial mirror and tries to see them for what they are, but they are out there.

On the other hand, I see absolutely no appeal in trying to run a stomp box rig where I need small (and prone-to-failure) patch cables between separate boxes, and three long cables to not only get effect loop effects in front of you but to split the signal for stereo or w/d/w use.

In the end, everybody should use what is convenient for them, but know why they are doing it. At the moment stomp boxes are very popular, and in my opinion for the wrong reasons.

*: This is admittedly a rack effect and not a stomp box, but it is basically the most advanced and exquisite sound I'd use in my rig, and has been chosen for illustrative purposes.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

I'm not telling anyone what do to with their rigs or what is or what is not. All these things are tools to make music and thats my goal.
Boss released the MS-3. Look at that product and it's going in the right direction for me anyway. I'm just looking for something like that of higher quality.
The G system from tc is not my cup of tea. I've been down the tc electronics rabbit hole and got sucked in with my first purchase of the Spark with is an incredible pedal. BUT I'm not the biggest fan of the rest of the line. I own a lot of it and I prefer Boss pedals and sound more especially the buffers they are way better with Boss then tc.

With all that I still want Boss to build my ULTIMATE pedal effects switching processor. The MS-3 is very close but I want higher quality more attention to detail. I want a Waza Craft level model. I can't see why that is so much to ask for.
Gibson has no issue selling you a 10k Les Paul and people buy them. They still offer affordable models but still offer a higher end choice for those who are willing to spend for what they want.

Honestly thats why there are so many choices out there from mild to wild. The AXE effects is interesting but I have yet to plug into one. The Helix is interesting but again never plugged into one and I never liked a single Line 6 product yet.
When I got back into the game back in 2005, I plugged into a Spider and hated it. I thought it was a toy or something. I tired many of their effects amps and multi effect processors back then and ended up getting rid of all of them. I can't see the Helix being any different.

I should add that my beef was less with you than with some of the other people commenting here. I think multi-fxs is a sensible solution for far more guitarists than those who actually use. I therefore shan't comment too much on this, as what you want is too far away from what I have found to work for me to be of much help.

I would like to mention one thing, though: just a few days ago, Glenn Fricker did a review of the Helix Native, which is basically the software version of the Helix. He isn't exactly known as a a proponent of Line 6 products, but it seems that he really liked the Line 6. I think there is an enormous gap between the "beginner line" multi-fx and the ones the professional quality ones. If people conflate the two that would go a long way towards explaining their unpopularity in some circles.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Ok. This.

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Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

I love both pedals and multis. But it all depends on the kind of player you are. Do you like to create tones? Or do you like to re-create tones? What are your needs, and whats your patience level? In any case, it is a good time to be a guitarist. We have tons of options out there.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

I would say that people who are content with "a good sounding amp & a few pedals", that is, who are not hunting very particular effect tones, are the ones who might have the most to gain from getting a quality multi-fx processor.


So how would you convince those players of that? If they're very pleased with their current amp & a few choice pedals, it's probably going to be a hard sell to get them to shell out $699 for a processor when they're already happy now.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

So how would you convince those players of that? If they're very pleased with their current amp & a few choice pedals, it's probably going to be a hard sell to get them to shell out $699 for a processor when they're already happy now.

I don't think it's about convincing players to dump their collection of stompboxes but rather making available a all-in-one product that sounds really good & is more affordable for players in general. For those that do fly gigs between states or international, taking along a unique pedal(or amp) of choice & having it lost in transit can be problem for readily sourcing another replacement.

For home playing, people can pick anything. I don't see mfx as some 100 fx in a box advantage thingy, it needs to have great converters & quality sounds in one box that's easy to move/store/maintain/setup. It doesn't need to model a specific pedal, just provide a effect thats tweakable & great sounding. Although I won't pay $2000 for a floor mfx unit either, max $999 works for me, even better if it were cheaper.

That's something that was lacking few years back, now there are quite a few options available in the market. Presently I'm not in need of getting one but glad that options exist than what used to be available.

Mantis- You could hope & wait for an eternity for Boss to up their mfx units OR move to any other present successful mfx units that are well regarded & used by pros for touring nowadays, if a opportunity were presented to me for choosing one for free then I'd pick the most appealing one from the ones I shortlisted. The Helix is not a toy like the Spider amps or early Pods. These are all modern higher end units, with the ability to load impulse responses & stuff. It's not 2005 anymore & Boss is stuck in pre 2000 era. Their Katana amps sound good but so did the Cubes. Actually they had tried to release some ugly looking expensive amps before the katana stuff, also not to forget the Blues Cube with the tone capsule thing which were expensive too. The only good thing they have going these days is their waza stuff, ES units & the synth unit that stands out in the crowd.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

So how would you convince those players of that? If they're very pleased with their current amp & a few choice pedals, it's probably going to be a hard sell to get them to shell out $699 for a processor when they're already happy now.

I certainly wouldn't bother arguing with players who were truly happy with their finished rigs. If they had just started out, however, I would have argued that they might want to consider the cabeling of each rig, especially if they are running effects in the loop, and whether they truly didn't think they were going to be getting more pedals later. A snide remark about 'tonal experimenters' was made earlier, and here it might actually apply: the effects are there if you decide to try them out. Then there is the aspect of costs, which is more complicated than it is often made out to be. Pedal purchasing, after all, is an expensive hobby, since extra cables, power supplies etc. also have to be accounted for, so I have come to the conclusion that ones needs have to be modest indeed if a used G-System or something similar is going to set one back significantly more than a pedal rig.

But again: if you have a rig that you are satisfied with the sounds and practicalities of, then I'm happy for you. I don't think either format is superior to the other in all settings. I do, however, believe that the claims of the superiority of pedals (as evinced in previous comments in this thread) are overblown, and may be harming for guitarists wanting to make the best purchase possible.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

This whole debate over pedals vs multi effects is pointless in my opinion. These are all tools for us to create or re create music. The issue is finding what works for you is the hard part.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Agreed. I was merely trying to clear the air of misconceptions introduced earlier in the thread, which might actively prevent people from "finding what works for you".
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

An MFX rig would probably be cheaper for me than my current pedal collection. I just honestly prefer pedals. I've had rack mfx units before and also used floor units.

Sure, I had lots of sounds accessible with these units, and I got good sounds; but eventually I found pedals were just easier to dial in the sounds I wanted... yes, for drastically different sounds it meant tons of pedals. Way more than I actually use at any given time, in fact. But, I like what I have. I hated scrolling through menus.

If people like that, or maybe just want consident tones without much tweaking, maybe an mfx is what they need. End of the day, it's what works for the individual. If you make it sound good, that's what counts.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Most players prefer to pick a few pedals of their own choice, rather than use what comes with a multi-effects processor.

+1. It's unlikely any multi-effects pedal is going to take the guitar community by storm.

I completely disagree with this. Yeah - there are some plug & play blues guys, or straight ahead rockers. And the bedroom crowd, of course. On the other hand - there are an entire group of cover band guys, guys who play in multiple bands, and gigging guys who are about setup/teardown, and stage space. That's a lot of gigging guys who are more than willing to program patches and be done with setup, bumped knobs etc...

No multi fx has taken the world by storm?

Line 6 Pod Pro, HD, etc....
Boss ME-6, 8, 10, 100
Digitech high end RP's, GSP-21's etc...
Tech 21 Fly Rig
Line 6 M9/13's

We can go on all day. If you have not seen guys out gigging with these you haven't seen guys out gigging! And lets don't forget all of those who use both.

Some go straight in, some use a pedal or two, and some use multi fx. I think the more people play, the more they move to these units. You eventually realize that the audience does not give a crap or know if you are using an Uber-pedal or bank 3 patch 7. And I know the guys in the band want to throttle you the minute you start copping a tune because the delay setting knob got bumped....

Takes all shapes and sizes. But I agree - There is no need for what the OP described. It's already out there.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

It's not that stomp boxes are necessarily superior, it's that there's a lot of them, with tones & nuances that can be hard to duplicate.

My Digitech Chorus Factory can make the sounds of 7, countem' 7 stomps, and each has more adjustability and range than the original. Most musicians burnt ears - and ALL on a stage / in a mix couldn't tell.

- An 80's Chorus Junkie (reformed)
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

No multi fx has taken the world by storm?

Line 6 Pod Pro, HD, etc....
Boss ME-6, 8, 10, 100
Digitech high end RP's, GSP-21's etc...
Tech 21 Fly Rig
Line 6 M9/13's

If we want to go into the truly high end stuff there is also the TC Electronics G-Force and the Eventide Harmonizers. You won't hear much about them on forums, for obvious reasons, but I am quite sure that everybody in this thread must have seen professional bands use both live.

On a side note, it has been way too long since we have seen a new rack offering from either company. I hope the current pedal trend isn't taking a toll on their business models. One of the reasons I hope so is that units from the G-System and onwards are a lot easier to program than earlier, since they may be adjusted from a computer. There is no longer any need to scroll through on a tiny two-colour screen. I don't think any of the Eventide rack systems have adopted this yet, though.

EDIT: Seems like Eventide is working on a new H9000. I am not enough of an effects head to put that much money into a unit, but I am glad that they – the grandmothers of high-end multi-fxx – are still on the offence with full-size units!
 
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THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

I really don't think you even have to get all that expensive to end up having a good use for a multi-effects pedal. My Zoom G5 cost me around $300, and while it is NOT The only thing on my pedalboard, it gives me the ability to control up to seven effects at one time, have one more "unseen" along with a very nice tube booster, and take up the real estate of only four or five normal stompboxes.

I'm not someone who is trying to copy a specific pedal, though, either. I use it regularly for a wah, chorus, flange, tremolo, phaser, talk, harmonizer, filter, compressor, EQ, and boost on two different patches.

I see it like this: for approximately $300, I got 11 pedals that I use regularly that fit into a space normally taken up by four or five, and there are still a couple hundred more in there that I COULD take advantage of if I so desire... using only one power supply, one "in" cable, and one "out" cable to boot!

I'm feeling like I did pretty well, all things considered. [emoji2]

PS: oh yeah, I also play out 2 to 3 times per month in a cover band.

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Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Mincer is right. There are some great options available to us these days.

Suggesting anything as applying to "most guitarists" in the last couple of years is erroneous at best.

Steve Howe and Billy Sherwood BOTH have the Line 6 Helix on tour with Yes. Rich Williams of Kansas has been using the Fractal for about 7 years.

The push for decreased stage volume has led to MORE use of modelers and mulieffects units.

Does that mean that stomps and amps are things of the past? OF COURSE NOT.

Use what works for YOU.

ACE: Add the L6 Firehawk to the list of muliteffects units.

Somebody is buying all of these.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Apologies for the egregious omission of Zoom...

And yeah - Firehawk.

I saw the $200 Boss GT-1; 108 Effects and 200 patches. More power and quality than any 80's rack of doom.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

My only multi is my H9. I would rather give up a give up a kidney than that pedal. If I am playing a one off song that needs an effect I don't own I would rather dial it in with the multi than buying a pedal everytime I need an effect. It also breeds creativity. I get to try different textures and sounds I would not have access to with fixed pedals. I think a mix of multis and single function stomps are the best mix for me.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Is the H9 capable of running several effects at the same time? If so, it might be something to look into if the G-System should ever prove to be too limited in any aspect.
 
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