These Knobs Are Made For Turning, And That's Just What They Do, One Of These Days

[MetalManiac]

Re: These Knobs Are Made For Turning, And That's Just What They Do, One Of These Days

This post reminds me of my old audio days. "Purists" would simply not turn a tone control. God forbid they should buy an outboard EQ. That would "color" the sound. It wouldn't be "natural".

But they'd spend countless hours, and God only knows how much money, swapping speakers, cartridges, dyna-mats et al., because there was too much bass or too little treble, etc.

Brilliant analogy Artie. I grew up as one of those "purists". An old Dynakit St-70 tube amp and a pair of KLH-24's would give the most natural 'euphonic' natural tone in the universe. An amp doesnt have tone controls, and the preamps were set to 0.

Early UK audio had a more upper mid focused tone with the BBC Rogers LS3-5'a benchmarks with the beuatiful, glorious midrange bloom.

In the US, the JBL moniotr speakers would put midrange forward for a liveley dynamic sound,w ith a briliant top end and the bass drivers were contolled for a taught bass.

Then, the modern British hi-fi sound emerged with the KEF, B&W' and primarilay the Celstion SL-6 with a very fl;at response.not lively , but voiced for classical and jazz sound , with transparency and "tonal neutrality" as the ultimate goal.


The old Tube Hi-Fi amps/preamps , both American and British( thugh i its acleare and more dynamic) and KLH / AR speaker is still , to this day, the most palpable and organic sound , notwithsatnding very very expensive modern hi fi systems.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: These Knobs Are Made For Turning, And That's Just What They Do, One Of These Days

I totally know what Jolly's talking about. I remember a thread by a guy who was going through pickups like crazy, complaining that no pickup sounded right. Everyone was telling him to do magnet swaps, tube swaps, speaker swaps etc.
By chance, someone asked him what his amp and EQ settings were, and he had his mids on 1 or something.

A good sounding amp, a good playing guitar, and a good player means more than all the other details.

 

[Mr 9finger]

Re: These Knobs Are Made For Turning, And That's Just What They Do, One Of These Days

I can sympathize and have been guilty of it myself. The quickest way to zap your bank account is to over analyze everything about your sound. Too often, we(especially those with GAS) are to quick to start changing everything in our setup because we don't hear what we want right off the bat. There's merit to all sides and opinions, but the bottom line is, you have to spend enough time with the gear you have to know its strengths and weaknesses before you start changing everything.

I've recently done it to myself. I bought to much stuff, to close together, and I tried getting it to all working together perfectly without spending time with each piece on its own for awhile.

I tell ya what. As much I love this place and am able to call a lot of you friends, this place is bad for a guitar player. A little bit of cash and having instant access to all kinds of knowledge from a bunch of guys that knows their stuff will have you broke and chasing yourself in circles in no time.

It took me a few years and a little time off from everything, but I finally learned on my own that it doesn't matter who's name is on your headstock, amp, or pedals. All that matters is that if it sounds good, plays good, and makes you happy.....That's all that matters. A lot of great musicians made great music with stuff they had to make do with because they didn't have the options we have today. These days we have too many options and a whole lot of mediocre at best music. EVH wrote some of the coolest songs ever on a parts mutt and a beat up plexi. Randy Rhoads shocked the world with his talent and he had a run of the mill Les Paul and a V that was converted Karl Sandoval, and some Stock Marshalls cranked to the max.

I really don't think those guys sat around and obsessed about every little part of the their setup. They play what they for a long period of time, became familiar with what they had, made a few changes when the knew what they needed to achieve their sound and Presto.....Magic!

 

[Mr 9finger]

Re: These Knobs Are Made For Turning, And That's Just What They Do, One Of These Days

P.S. After typing all of that....I still want Joe's white chassis XTC....One of these days....oh yes.....Mr.9Fingers will have one of his own to..Oh yes.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: These Knobs Are Made For Turning, And That's Just What They Do, One Of These Days

P.S. After typing all of that....I still want Joe's white chassis XTC....One of these days....oh yes.....Mr.9Fingers will have one of his own to..Oh yes.

I probably saved a lot of money on amps and other gear by buying that original white chassic Bogner XTC. I'm less picky about guitars and pickups because everything sounds good through it. After dialing it in with great tubes and biasing, it would make anything from a $150 - $4000 guitar sound just fine. Just change a few settings, and it'll match itself to any pickups or wood.

 

[Diego]

Re: These Knobs Are Made For Turning, And That's Just What They Do, One Of These Days

And I disagree, and thats why I need more guitars with different woods and pickups. I like my Marshall JMP . Its a wonderfully organic tone. Even though the JMP will always have the Marshall signature tone, the amplifier eq'd voicing of all those different woods and pickups( Ash, Alder, MAhogany, Mpale, etc), gives each isntrument a difefrent tone ..and add to that that the pickups have been selectively coupled to the tonewood for best results, and the harmonic convergence is a total delight.
With the high quality r APh's, Seths, Cutoms, etc etc. picking up the resonant charecter of the guitar( for betetr or for worse), the amp EQ is there to shape the final sound everything; to generally balance the sound and to fine tune it.
To *define the tone is the primary responsiblity of the pickup./ Its the first in the chain of command of tone. Its at the headwaters of the signal-It outsources the prime sound of the wood and the guitar to the rest of the signal chain. The pickup sould have a synergystic rrelartionshipwith the tonewood. This fundamental will become the cornerstone for the final tone of the amp.

And in what way does that contradict what I said?
You are correct, it's just that I don't care enough because IMO, as a performer,
there's much more to gain by playing the hell out of your gear and learning it's tonal sweetspots, rather than just panicking about pickup magnets and cap values.
Pass one of your guitars and your JMP to a newbie and let him set it up and play a bit. It will sound like crap. Then, give it to Joe Bonamassa.
I'll put my money on Bonamassa squeezing tones you didn't know were there.

Many folks here are tone enthusiasts rather than guitar enthusiasts.
Count me on the latter. It's cheaper.

 

[Scott_F]

Re: These Knobs Are Made For Turning, And That's Just What They Do, One Of These Days

These knobs are gonna tweak all over you.

Yeah, I know it's a dorky Nancy Sinatra thingie, buuuuuuuuuut.........

I don't get the deal with people always wanting to know what pickup to get brighter, or what pedal to get darker, or whatever's whatever.

I just got finished playing my li'l $149 Squier through my Marshall JVM410H for about an hour. It sounded great by the way. However, it doean't sound the same as when it did right after I played my Gibson RD through the amp. Guess what? I tweaked two knobs and it sounded perfect. I put that guitar down and played my Gibson Les Paul Classic with some Pearly Gates in it. It didn't sound exactly like I wanted it to, so I tweaked a couple of knobs and it sounded perfect.

I play different guitars throught that amp all of the time. Besides the fact that my ears seem to change from day to day and sometimes things don't sound the way I like right off of the bat, all I have to do is usually either tweak my Presence, Treble, or Mids....and it's usually only one of those and maybe two.

Am I the only one that just turns a knob here and there on this forum? Sometimes I wonder, and the reason being is because alot of people ask questions like I afforementioned in the third sentence of this rambling thread...lol.

What's so hard about turning a knob here and there? I couldn't tell you how many times I've been somewhere where some friends are jamming or whatever, and someone looks at me and says something like "this is too bassy", "this treble is driving me crazy", or whatever, and then they proceed to ask me about different pickups, speakers, or whatever. I walk over and turn a few knobs and they look at me all amazed like I just parted the freakin Red Sea or something because their amp sounds amazing all of a sudden.

Is it just me or do I not know what I'm talking about because I just shook half of my brain loose from crankin up the mighty Marshall with two totally different guitars?

You keep tweaking and turning your knobs, you'll go blind.

 

[richard parker]

Re: These Knobs Are Made For Turning, And That's Just What They Do, One Of These Days

So Jolly, you have friends who will say 'This is too bassy' and it doesn't occur to them to turn the bass down ?

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: These Knobs Are Made For Turning, And That's Just What They Do, One Of These Days

Generally I tend to agree with you Jolly . . . if you've got a passable sounding guitar and amp, little tweaks of the knobs are really all that you need. Although, I did start out a set one time with my wah pedal on without realizing it . . . and no amount of panicked tweaking the guitar's tone knob for the first three songs seemed to be able to fix the sound.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: These Knobs Are Made For Turning, And That's Just What They Do, One Of These Days

Generally I tend to agree with you Jolly . . . if you've got a passable sounding guitar and amp, little tweaks of the knobs are really all that you need. Although, I did start out a set one time with my wah pedal on without realizing it . . . and no amount of panicked tweaking the guitar's tone knob for the first three songs seemed to be able to fix the sound.

Ha!!!

I'm sure that kinda thing has happened to all of us at least once. It has driven me crazy on many occassions.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: These Knobs Are Made For Turning, And That's Just What They Do, One Of These Days

I think you all have really valid points. I totally get what Jolly and Gearjoneser are saying.

I truly believe that the number one ingredient in your tone is your amp. I've played some very el-cheapo guitars (less than $50) through a great amp and sounded very good. Perfect? No, but basically very good. I've also played some truly great guitars ($2000 - $5000 Gibsons and Fenders) through a cheap SS amp and no amount of dialing and knob twisting could make it sound even mediocre.

If you're starting with a reasonably good guitar and a great amp, you will (if you use the knobs) get some amazing sounds. Changing pups, magnets, strings, tubes, etc is for fine tuning. For me...I've got a really good sounding amp (Bogner) and a couple dozen guitars, almost all of them have aftermarket pups in them, and almost all of those pups have been though many mag swaps. Not because they didn't sound great through my amp to begin with, but because I'm a "fine tuner" (that's a polite way of saying that I'm an addict ... to tone tweaking). Always searching for that illussive perfection. My wife thinks I'm crazy. She says that my tone years ago sounded as good as it gets and she can't tell that it's any better today after all my spending and tweaking. So I guess it's just me.

 

[Rich_T]

Re: These Knobs Are Made For Turning, And That's Just What They Do, One Of These Days

Couldn't agree more. A decent valve head with a bit of volume is going to sound awesome, with very little effort.

 

[JOLLY]

Re: These Knobs Are Made For Turning, And That's Just What They Do, One Of These Days

I totally know what Jolly's talking about. I remember a thread by a guy who was going through pickups like crazy, complaining that no pickup sounded right. Everyone was telling him to do magnet swaps, tube swaps, speaker swaps etc.
By chance, someone asked him what his amp and EQ settings were, and he had his mids on 1 or something.

A good sounding amp, a good playing guitar, and a good player means more than all the other details.

Exactly!! You totally know where I was coming from.

 

[voggin]

Re: These Knobs Are Made For Turning, And That's Just What They Do, One Of These Days

I think that's why teles are such an aquired taste, usually later in a player's life. Most people start with mediocre guitar/cheap amp. They then get a better guitar, and still play it through the crummy amp. Whereas something with humbuckers or even a strat can sound alright through a practise amp, a tele really needs a tube amp to get rid of the brittleness.

If people started by upgrading the amp first, there would be more newbie tele players (and more soapbar players, too.)

 

[Surgeon]

Re: These Knobs Are Made For Turning, And That's Just What They Do, One Of These Days

Go to an opthamologist and get your damn ears cleaned out!

Sorry, but that's the funniest thing I've read today!:lmao:

 

[Mr 9finger]

Re: These Knobs Are Made For Turning, And That's Just What They Do, One Of These Days

I probably saved a lot of money on amps and other gear by buying that original white chassic Bogner XTC. I'm less picky about guitars and pickups because everything sounds good through it. After dialing it in with great tubes and biasing, it would make anything from a $150 - $4000 guitar sound just fine. Just change a few settings, and it'll match itself to any pickups or wood.

I hope to have mine by the end of the year if nothing goes to terribly wrong. A little Christmas present to myself for the holidays! It's gotten to the point now, that I'm running out of room quickly, but I'll make room for an XTC and matching cab! I can always double stack heads and share cabinets!