Bill Dennis
New member
I run sound. We all know these tricks.
They’ve forced my hand (direct to PA)
- Thread starter DankStar
- Start date
I run sound. We all know these tricks.
Ascension
New member
The problem is not with your amp or having an amp on stage. I have been running a Subway Rocket for years at super low stage volume in Church with a 57 on it.
Every clip here is with my rocket miced at a very low stage level.
https://youtu.be/h2qBzG7qrLs?si=V31k7OD5b4TaYh68
https://youtu.be/32iQEwpz_ow?si=KCCTF9gKB3FfkDSc
https://youtu.be/CuRn3A3PpNg?si=dMJKP-BewtsM52vL
https://youtu.be/KT97pcq93ac?si=TZD1DSffKHgZEVuQ
If they can't hear you out front WITH a miced amp it won't get better if you go direct you will only lose more control of your volume and tone.
i always sing loud and play at real volume when i do sound check. if the sound guy is good, thats what they want. if the sound guy sucks, we bring our own next time
Ascension
New member
LOL I was running a 100 watt half stack on stage at my CHURCH until 2010. Needed it to get over the large choir and the CROWD!
A Sunday night live recording.
https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=4939016
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Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Ascension
I'm not saying this to be a dick or anything, but I have listened to over a dozen of your clips. Probably two over the years. Two clips here. I can't hear your guitar for crap. Bass, Drums, echo in the room, etc. Not enough guitar to tell if you are playing a Fender, Marshall, Vox, Les Paul, Start, Tele, or what...
Maybe it sounds great in the room - but your recordings here are useless. Can't tell if you are playing a Triple Recto with a Les Paul Custom or a Crate GX10 with an Ibanez Gio.
I'm not saying this to be a dick or anything, but I have listened to over a dozen of your clips. Probably two over the years. Two clips here. I can't hear your guitar for crap. Bass, Drums, echo in the room, etc. Not enough guitar to tell if you are playing a Fender, Marshall, Vox, Les Paul, Start, Tele, or what...
Maybe it sounds great in the room - but your recordings here are useless. Can't tell if you are playing a Triple Recto with a Les Paul Custom or a Crate GX10 with an Ibanez Gio.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Dude - it is 2024 - there is no reason you have to play an amp.
Gave up on those a few years ago. No one cares.
IF you are using your amp as your monitor, and having it mic'd as well, here is a potential issue, Especially if you have some direct and some cabs on stage; To hear yourself over drums etc, you may have your amp cranking. But that can put a lot of sound coming off the stage directly. So imagine left guitar has sound punching front row/table in the face, while guitar right is coming off the mains only. Will sound like crap.
That said, current modelers are the bees knees. Doesn't matter if you are using the Soldano pedal, the Iridium or that new Boss box, something like a Sans amp or whatever. And of course, Helix, AXFX, Headrest, Boss, and so on and so forth.
Don't get me wrong...LOVE my my Mesa head and cab. But it's big, it's heavy, it requires more gear, is more of a PITA to get right soundwise, and generally DOES require a sound guy.
Now - as for good modeling....
#1 Sound guys love them. Mic's not needed, nothing to bump, signal is loud and strong.
#2 It's freaking lighter/faster to set up period
And in whatever random sound environment, through whatever speakers, etc...the only person hearing your Uber-tone is you. And that's like your opinion man. What makes the band cook is the band. Not your pedal of epic living room tone.
To set up a modeler to sound good - simple:
1. Pick an amp model, pick a cab - and lets be honest...even crappy modelers have more and better speaker/IRs than you do.
2. Don't over do it. As always...
3. Listen through a cab/speaker/monitor like the PA will be and set it up using THAT. Not phones, not a FRFR, not a guitar amp. A PA speaker. rent one for a weekend if you don't have one.
4. Get a really long cable, or wireless and listen from the house.
5. Tweak the settings with the band - which is what the sound guy is doing with the EQ once you are in the mix.
Then just use your own powered monitor and turn the knob as loud or quiet as you want.
How the signal gets to the board does not matter. My stage setup is guitar into Boss SD1 > JCM800 > Marshall 4x12 with Greenback 25's. It sounds fantastic. How do I know? we have wireless units and can stand out in the room and listen.
As for sound guys - Foockthemalltohell. Except for the rare good one. Don't use them anymore except special occasions.
- Too many former players who think they can do sound
- Too many old blind guys with bluetooth pads accidentally hitting the wrong slider and goofing my monitor mix etc
- Too many dance club guys mixing rock like it's yo MTV Raps. Heard feedback about that from a Night Ranger show last week. Happens to everyone.
- Too many "former large club sound engineers" charging as much as the band makes
- Too many wannabe record "producers" who keep futzing with reverbs, delays, mixes etc
We set our sound up, we save the profile, and we check with the wives - who are harsh AF if something doesn't sound right. Next time, we pull up the preset, we do a quick check, tweak EQ for room, and done.
Don't get me wrong - still love and will use my amp when the conditions are right. But I spend way more time focussing on the playing and the performance than the sound going direct.
Gave up on those a few years ago. No one cares.
IF you are using your amp as your monitor, and having it mic'd as well, here is a potential issue, Especially if you have some direct and some cabs on stage; To hear yourself over drums etc, you may have your amp cranking. But that can put a lot of sound coming off the stage directly. So imagine left guitar has sound punching front row/table in the face, while guitar right is coming off the mains only. Will sound like crap.
That said, current modelers are the bees knees. Doesn't matter if you are using the Soldano pedal, the Iridium or that new Boss box, something like a Sans amp or whatever. And of course, Helix, AXFX, Headrest, Boss, and so on and so forth.
Don't get me wrong...LOVE my my Mesa head and cab. But it's big, it's heavy, it requires more gear, is more of a PITA to get right soundwise, and generally DOES require a sound guy.
Now - as for good modeling....
#1 Sound guys love them. Mic's not needed, nothing to bump, signal is loud and strong.
#2 It's freaking lighter/faster to set up period
And in whatever random sound environment, through whatever speakers, etc...the only person hearing your Uber-tone is you. And that's like your opinion man. What makes the band cook is the band. Not your pedal of epic living room tone.
To set up a modeler to sound good - simple:
1. Pick an amp model, pick a cab - and lets be honest...even crappy modelers have more and better speaker/IRs than you do.
2. Don't over do it. As always...
3. Listen through a cab/speaker/monitor like the PA will be and set it up using THAT. Not phones, not a FRFR, not a guitar amp. A PA speaker. rent one for a weekend if you don't have one.
4. Get a really long cable, or wireless and listen from the house.
5. Tweak the settings with the band - which is what the sound guy is doing with the EQ once you are in the mix.
Then just use your own powered monitor and turn the knob as loud or quiet as you want.
How the signal gets to the board does not matter. My stage setup is guitar into Boss SD1 > JCM800 > Marshall 4x12 with Greenback 25's. It sounds fantastic. How do I know? we have wireless units and can stand out in the room and listen.
As for sound guys - Foockthemalltohell. Except for the rare good one. Don't use them anymore except special occasions.
- Too many former players who think they can do sound
- Too many old blind guys with bluetooth pads accidentally hitting the wrong slider and goofing my monitor mix etc
- Too many dance club guys mixing rock like it's yo MTV Raps. Heard feedback about that from a Night Ranger show last week. Happens to everyone.
- Too many "former large club sound engineers" charging as much as the band makes
- Too many wannabe record "producers" who keep futzing with reverbs, delays, mixes etc
We set our sound up, we save the profile, and we check with the wives - who are harsh AF if something doesn't sound right. Next time, we pull up the preset, we do a quick check, tweak EQ for room, and done.
Don't get me wrong - still love and will use my amp when the conditions are right. But I spend way more time focussing on the playing and the performance than the sound going direct.
I will say it is much easier to mix a band without a ton of open mics onstage. A loud guitar amp onstage does leak into everything. It is possible to get a good mix, but it takes a lot longer, and inexperienced people tend to settle for 'as good as I can make it' sound.
hamerfan
Well-known member
I am a kind of ‚Too many former players who think they can do sound‚ for starter.
With my last band i watched some their rehersals first and we did a gig without audience (big room, full set up). I recorded every gig out of the console with digital recorder. Those recordings are clear and sound great. The problems occur with limits of the used cabinets, loud monitors, room problems and noisy audience.
@Mincer: You are right. I use a multigate for the drums and singers. Next thing recently was In ear monitoring and a modeler for lead guitarist.
With my last band i watched some their rehersals first and we did a gig without audience (big room, full set up). I recorded every gig out of the console with digital recorder. Those recordings are clear and sound great. The problems occur with limits of the used cabinets, loud monitors, room problems and noisy audience.
@Mincer: You are right. I use a multigate for the drums and singers. Next thing recently was In ear monitoring and a modeler for lead guitarist.
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totally true.
i used to record one of my bands with two condensers direct into the recorder. once you know the room, its a lot easier to dial things in
It is amazing to think how many classic albums were recorded just like that.
