Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

[mwalluk]

I have a couple extra bucks and wanna enhance my amp's tonal characteristics.

As of right now, I'm running a Tungsol, JJ ECC803s, Mullard RI and a Sovtek LPS in the PI of my VHT/Fryette Deliverance.

So far out of all the tubes I tried (JJ ECC83, 803s, EHX, Ruby, Sovtek, etc) the Tungsol was the best in V1 spot.

The V2 spot is a little more touchy. The JJ works well when the "LESS" switch is on, however with "MORE" engaged it starts getting flubby and gain isn't where it needs to be.

The V3 (Mullard) and PI (LPS) spots are staples. I'm satisfied with those tubes there. No need to change. They sound the best. (I did tube swap there a few times and always went back to those.)

So I'm looking for different tubes for V1-V2 spots.

Has anyone tried the Genalex - Gold Lion B759 / ECC83 / 12AX7 Preamp Vacuum Tubes?

Are Black Sables any decent?

Or JAN GE 12AX7WA?

JAN Sylvania 12AX7WA?

NOS Ei ECC83 / 12AX7?

I'm def thinking another Mullard RI maybe for V2?

I"ll be ordering from Tube Depot

 

[ken361]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

I like the gold lions a little more over the tungsol, tad warmer mids but there pretty close, my boogie likes the baldwin sylvania's in the v2 there from ebay there pretty cheap. EI are pretty decent in the gain stages also. I always get my power tubes from tube depot there a good company

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

Would it be worth dropping $100 on two 12ax7s?

V1-Genalex Gold Lion
V2- EI

Would that be a good combo?

 

[ken361]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

Dougs tubes sells EI's for a good price, go to ebay for the lions I payed 32 a few months back he was the cheapest

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

I just purchased an EI HERE for $32. About to order the Genalex now. Looking forward to the tone.

Should I go Genalex-EI combo or EI-Genalex??????

 

[ken361]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

Tc is thats were i got mine at i would do the EI v2

 

[Jay 77]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

Didn't you just go through all this (in exceptional detail) a little while back? Just buy the damn things and try them!

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

Didn't you just go through all this (in exceptional detail) a little while back? Just buy the damn things and try them!

Ha touche.

I just bought the EI and Genalex a few moments ago. Hoping that brings my desired results.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

I'm not convinced that you'll hear an extreme difference to justify spending ~$50 for a preamp tube, compared to ones you can get for half that price - especially once you're in a mix with a band. But, I could be wrong.

 

[Ascension]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

Dougs tubes sells EI's for a good price, go to ebay for the lions I payed 32 a few months back he was the cheapest

+1 on Doug's tubes. I have been doing business with Doug Preston for many years. Every thing is tested and graded by gain + his CS is absolutely stellar.
http://www.dougstubes.com/?utm_sour...ium=email&mc_cid=6d06916c10&mc_eid=c397dd6c08
Before I would drop $50 a pop on ANY new production 12AX7 I would go with a solid NOS like these JAN Phillips from Doug http://www.dougstubes.com/preamp-tubes/12ax7-ecc83-7025/jan-12ax7wa.html.

 

[wahwah]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

Keep in mind that current production tubes labelled Sovtek, Tung Sol, EH, Mullard and Genelex are all produced in the same Xpo-pul factory in Saratov, Russia, using the same materials and made on the same equipment, with design details and quality control selection being the only difference. They are all just names bought out by New Sensor, to allude to some of the long gone great tube makers of the Golden Era. For the price you are paying for these cheaply produced Russian tubes of limited longevity, you could be buying 'good used' actual examples of the real thing, with a high percentage of their life left in them. It requires some self education regarding the original brands and their peak eras, and it also requires an amp circuit that responds to the quality of these vintage tubes. Generally, the simpler and more 'vintage' the circuit, the better it will respond to good tubes.

Another thing to keep in mind is that JAN tubes were made for the military, and the focus was always on ruggedness as opposed to tone. They became popular amongst tube dealers and were largely hyped, because they could be bought so cheaply as surplus and were never preferred by either guitar players or audiophiles. When stocks of the best tubes diminished, these army surplus tubes began to appear, touted as being something special sonically, which they are not. They are certainly sturdy, as they were made to survive wartime conditions, but that doesn't qualify them as the best sounding tubes.




Cheers....................................... wahwah

 

[Ascension]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

Another thing to keep in mind is that JAN tubes were made for the military, and the focus was always on ruggedness as opposed to tone. They became popular amongst tube dealers and were largely hyped, because they could be bought so cheaply as surplus and were never preferred by either guitar players or audiophiles. When stocks of the best tubes diminished, these army surplus tubes began to appear, touted as being something special sonically, which they are not. They are certainly sturdy, as they were made to survive wartime conditions, but that doesn't qualify them as the best sounding tubes.
Cheers....................................... wahwah

Agreed on many of the JAN's bro. The Phillips 12AX7's are pretty nice sounding tubes but can be a little microphonic in really high gain amps. The Phillips JAN 12AX7's are better built than any current production tubes by a mile and solidly mid pack for really good NOS in tone.

 

[wahwah]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

Agreed on many of the JAN's bro. The Phillips 12AX7's are pretty nice sounding tubes but can be a little microphonic in really high gain amps. The Phillips JAN 12AX7's are better built than any current production tubes by a mile and solidly mid pack for really good NOS in tone.

Yes, I've had Philips JAN 12AX7's as original tubes in a couple of custom built amps over the years. Agreed that they are certainly better built than any current production stuff. I don't hear them matching early 60s Mullard short plates or 50s RCA black plates for tone. They are comparable in quality to post Blackburn IEC Mullards and 70s short plate RCAs, but those are both tubes from factories in serious decline. But I would have to agree that they would give any current production stuff a good kick in the pants in most amps.




Cheers....................................... wahwah

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

In terms of vintage tubes don't know how good they would work for my high gain amp?

The EI's I got are pre-war Yugoslavia made.
The Genalex are pretty good new made tubes, I use their KT88s.

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

The Genalex are pretty good new made tubes, I use their KT88s.

If one can judge by JJs, power amp tubes are not always a good barometer for preamp tube quality.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

im not convinced that spending a lot of money on genalex is worth it. I'll admit ive never tried them, but a different speaker has a much more dramatic effect on tone than all the tube changes you can think of.

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

im not convinced that spending a lot of money on genalex is worth it. I'll admit ive never tried them, but a different speaker has a much more dramatic effect on tone than all the tube changes you can think of.

I agree with that.

That being said im tube swapping for the feel. I have a pretty neutral speaker in my classic lead 80. Im close to the tone I want now. I just gotta fix my v1 and v2 spots. For instance dual tungsols with more switch engaged gave me a nice overdrive but was way to bright. Tungsol and ecc803 made the extra distortion sound mushy and not tight but a nicer dialed back clean. So I'm looking for a happy medium that's warm and robust but with bite

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

If one can judge by JJs, power amp tubes are not always a good barometer for preamp tube quality.

Well depends on which jj. The 803 is nice. Not so much reg one ha

 

[ken361]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

some amps will like certain tubes over the others keep in mined

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Thinking about 12ax7 - Gold Lions?

im tube swapping for the feel. I have a pretty neutral speaker in my classic lead 80. Im close to the tone I want now. I just gotta fix my v1 and v2 spots. For instance dual tungsols with more switch engaged gave me a nice overdrive but was way to bright. Tungsol and ecc803 made the extra distortion sound mushy and not tight but a nicer dialed back clean. So I'm looking for a happy medium that's warm and robust but with bite

i still reckon looking at speakers will give you more options with feel too. You can have your cake and eat it too if you get the right one. At the cost of some tubes these days, speakers are becoming a cheaper option too!