Thinking about a speaker swap

Matt42

New member
I've been thinking about a speaker swap in my 41st Amps Bayonet (1x12" 2 6v6 Deluxe platform amp). I want to have a bit more clean headroom. With my telecaster (MIM standard pickups), it currently starts overdriving at about 9:00 and is crunching pretty nicely by 10:00. I'd like to be able to push that a bit higher. I'm going to put a 12ay7 in this weekend, I think, but I'm also thinking a speaker swap is in order. Currently it's a Jensen JET c12/50.

For all my gear nerdery, I know absurdly little about speakers. From what I've read around here over the years, it seems my starting point might be a Cannabis Rex for this amp. Anything else I should consider? Headroom is the primary motivation behind swapping, but I wouldn't mind a bit fuller and warmer sound.
 
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Re: Thinking about a speaker swap

Try an Eminence Swamp Thang. It's big, warm, and clear.....a really big sounding speaker with no harshness in any frequency.
 
Re: Thinking about a speaker swap

Also, see if your amp has a bias pot. Maybe it's driving your 6V6's into distorting too early, killing your clean headroom.
 
Re: Thinking about a speaker swap

I've always preferred a 5751 over a 12AY7 for 'taming' the gain. Consider that if the 12AY7 doesn't give you what you're after.
As far as speakers....higher efficiency (sensitivity) speakers give more volume at the same setting (or same volume at a lower volume setting) resulting in more headroom. Check the sensitivity of your current speaker and as you look for a replacement, make sure it has a minimum of 3db additional sensitivity.
And additionally, other than a bias check, as mentioned above, if these things don't get it for you, you probably have the wrong amp for what you're after.
 
Re: Thinking about a speaker swap

i play an old deluxe reverb and use a crex. ive tried other speakers but i keep coming back to the crex. also try a nos 12at7 in the pi slot, the modern 12at7 dont seem to hold up as well as the old ones. a 5751 is a fine tube for your first preamp stage to keep the tone pretty much the same but drop the gain. a 12ay7 changes the tone but you may like it. dont think ive tried a 12ay7 in my dr but its a cool lower gain option ive used in my tweed amps. joes suggestion to check the bias is a good one as well
 
Re: Thinking about a speaker swap

Try an Eminence Swamp Thang. It's big, warm, and clear.....a really big sounding speaker with no harshness in any frequency.

Also, see if your amp has a bias pot. Maybe it's driving your 6V6's into distorting too early, killing your clean headroom.

I didn't think of the Swamp Thing? I saw the rating of 150W and figured it was too big. Is that even something you can do with speakers? Or does it just give you a ton of clean headroom? Also, I'm fairly sure there is no bias pot. At last not a visible one, I've never had the chassis open. There's a weird hum in the reverb that sounds like a grounding issue, so I need to get some work done on it, maybe it'd be worth having them tweak the bias a little bit at the same time.


I've always preferred a 5751 over a 12AY7 for 'taming' the gain. Consider that if the 12AY7 doesn't give you what you're after.
As far as speakers....higher efficiency (sensitivity) speakers give more volume at the same setting (or same volume at a lower volume setting) resulting in more headroom. Check the sensitivity of your current speaker and as you look for a replacement, make sure it has a minimum of 3db additional sensitivity.
And additionally, other than a bias check, as mentioned above, if these things don't get it for you, you probably have the wrong amp for what you're after.

I just looked and the current speaker has a 98db sensitivity rating. The Cannabis Rex is 101db, so that's a nice jump. And the Swamp Thing is even higher.

I really love this amp, I love the way it breaks up and it's overall tonal characteristics. However, I'm coming to view it as slightly a one tick pony. It does that one trick extremely well, but it still struggles with versatility. I'm eventually going to get a 30-40 watt cleaner amp to use in situations where this one just doesn't have enough uumph. Also, part of the problem is that our drummer is really loud, and our other guitar player has a Mesa Mark III and uses Les Pauls, which is tough to keep up with on a Deluxe with a Telecaster.

i play an old deluxe reverb and use a crex. ive tried other speakers but i keep coming back to the crex. also try a nos 12at7 in the pi slot, the modern 12at7 dont seem to hold up as well as the old ones. a 5751 is a fine tube for your first preamp stage to keep the tone pretty much the same but drop the gain. a 12ay7 changes the tone but you may like it. dont think ive tried a 12ay7 in my dr but its a cool lower gain option ive used in my tweed amps. joes suggestion to check the bias is a good one as well

I'd used a 12ay7 in a tweed Champ with good effect, which was why I was leaning that way. I may try the 5751 first. Although, this amp does have some tweedy characteristics, so maybe I'll just grab both and see which one works best.

I'm leaning toward a Cannabis Rex at this point, but since actually pulling the trigger on this is still a month or so off, I'm not super worried.
 
Re: Thinking about a speaker swap

^I like the Swamp Thang I have. It's in a 2X12 cab paired with a Wizard.
 
Re: Thinking about a speaker swap

In my limited experience, I'd say get a Eminence Wizard. It's very efficient so it will squeeze the most out of your limited headroom.
Is your amp open or closed back?
 
Re: Thinking about a speaker swap

Before you spend any money on techs or speakers, Email the buider of your amp and ask him if it has a bias pot or if it's fixed. He can tell you how to get more headroom.
It could be as simple as pulling the chassis, keeping a speaker connected, and turning the pot till the amp sounds perfect to you.
I've biased amps by ear many times. The truth is, when the amp sounds the boldest and strongest, it's probably right where it would be if you did it by the numbers with a meter. Then it'll start breaking up at 11:00 or 12:00.

The Canabis Rex or Swamp Thang would be an improvement over a Jensen.
I actually replaced Jensens with Swamp Thangs in Fenders, and it made the 212 sound like a 412. If you want a nice jump in volume, go with the ST. When you hit chords hard it'll never fart out or distort, because it can handle anything you throw at it.
 
Re: Thinking about a speaker swap

I think I'll start with a Cannabis Rex and move up if that's not giving me what I want. That and a 5751 should be enough to get me what I'm after out of this amp. I'm not looking for a huge amount of headroom, just some more breathing room.

I love this amp 95% of the time. When I was playing in my country cover band before I moved, it was a great amp for that. For the band I'm in now, though, it's not quite enough. I like the tones I get out of it, and it's going to sound great on the album we are working on, but it gets lost in the mix a bit live. In a perfect world, I'd be playing a Vibrolux with these guys.
 
Re: Thinking about a speaker swap

See about biasing it cooler as well.

Ask the builder if the amp can handle 5881's/6L6's, or if he could mod the amp for those tubes. I'd go with 5881's because they have a sweeter breakup. If so, it would be a higher powered version of your same amp. If the amp has over-spec'd transformers, you can probably bias the amp for bigger tubes. If you like the amp now, you'll really like it then.
 
Re: Thinking about a speaker swap

I think they used smaller transformers for this one. They also make a 40w 2x10 6L6 amp. I might have the amp rebiased, but I don't think I'll go after a major tube swap. I like 6v6 tubes a lot. I'd rather have another amp with 6L6 tubes in it :P.
 
Re: Thinking about a speaker swap

As long as the power tranny can handle the current draw you can throw 5881 in and rebias. The tone will change but you'll get at least a little more clean volume. Little more top and bottom. Even if there isn't a bias pot (I assume there would be) as long as the tubes don't red plate you're ok at least for a little while but it might not sound great. Negative feedback can be adjusted too. On my dr I took the polarity switch and wired it for a neg feedback on/off switch. The amp is noticeably louder but also more aggressive with no nfb so may or may not be something you want. I like having the option of smoother and quieter vs louder and raunchier. Also jj 6v6 tubes seem louder than some others, they also pull more current
 
Re: Thinking about a speaker swap

Cannabis rex is a loud speaker. Fat and warm. A little darker on top than most "american" style speakers. Great for a thick jazzy tone.
Just a quick thought tho...have you got JJ power tubes? There is a big difference in terms of headroom and added bass over regular 6v6s.
 
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