Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

[Lewguitar]

Maybe some of you have already tried this but maybe not.

I'm getting a Duncan Custom Shop tapped Tele bridge pickup. It's tapped for 6.5K and 10K output.

The way I'll use it is with a 5 way Strat style switch.

The neck pickup is on, by itself, in the #3 middle position...#4 is neck & 10K bridge...#5 is 10K bridge. #2 is neck & 6.5K bridge...#1 is 6.5K bridge.

Now, if I did this to a Strat instead of a Tele, I'd add the middle pickup via a blender pot.

I can then add the middle pickup to any of the above pickup selections and get a total of 10 tones from a 3 pickup Strat....or Tele!

Pretty Cool!

Lew

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

Cool!

What I have done on my fat tele with the middle s/c pickup has some funky wiring ideas too.

I am using a 5 way strat switch, and 2 500K push/pull pots. One activates the bridge in any position, and the second activates one 250K resistance cap (that you sent! ) so that when necessary the pot value decreases to 475-250/2 ~ 350K.

The JD in the bridge sounds great with that 350K pot, and 7.50K ant neck hb (non modded) sounds gorgeous with the 475K pot. I am using an orange drop cap (0.033) a la 50's wiring.

The only thing I cannot do is controlling the mix of the bridge with the neck. It is either 0 or 1. I was entertaining the idea of using a 500/500 dual concentric pot, yet then I will lose one of the switch possibilities I mentioned above. But sacrificing the middle s/c only position (and retaining the others) does not sound too bad. So maybe I am gonna be losing the mid-only position, i.e. #3, and get the mixing opportunities.

The only bad thing about the following would be the unconventional control on the 5 way switch.

1. Tone pot would be a pushpull 500K to activate/deactivate the 250K resistance cap,

2. Vol pot would be the upper 500K pot of the dual concentric pot

3. I am gonna run the neck pickup right into the lower of the dual concentric pots. I know then when only the neck is active, I am gonna be running it through 2 500K pots. So I would be getting something slightly lower due to double grounding of the 2 500K 500K pots. But I think I am not gonna be losing much highs. Dunno maybe it would be a disaster tho! But I think it would not make much of a difference no?

4. 5th position will be only the bridge,

5. 4th position would be neck and bridge where the neck signal will run through the 500K pot first, and then the neck and bridge signal would run through another 500K (master) vol pot.

6. 3rd position would be the neck only one.

7. 2nd position would be bridge and middle.

8. 1st position would be middle/neck and bridge all active.

But seriously I think getting a 7 way switch and using 2 500/500K pots (with 250K resistance cap wired fixed on the switch for the bridge and middle position) would be easier. No?

OR maybe I should leave it alone. It is very versatile anyway, and playing a LP is always fun if I really were to beg for the LP 2nd position.

Anyway I think I am getting ready to construct a bomb, because the wires in the cavity looks like one anyway! :dance:

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

Cool!

.............so that when necessary the pot value decreases to 475-250/2 ~ 350K.

The JD in the bridge sounds great with that 350K pot.....

Ah, ... Doc, you might think I'm being a bit persnickity here, but ... a 475k pot in parallel with a 250k resistor is approximately 164k ... you can't sum two different resistance values and divide it by the number of values involved.
That only works if the two values are the same number, such as two 8 ohm speakers. Thus ... 1/475k + 1/250k = circa 164k. Unless you are talking about something else, in which case it's my bad. Doc check you PM please.

............seriously I think getting a 7 way switch ................

Doc, I've heard mention of a 7way before, do you have a model/manufacturer? Is it a lever style? Are they independent throws, or shared (like the 2&4 positions of a strat 5 way)? Thanks.
Both of these layouts sound cool, and very useful. Kudos to you both...

 

[MattPete]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

Here's my funky wiring. It's uses a Tele 4-way switch

1 bridge
2 middle
3 neck
4 neck + bridge (parallel)

Now here is where things get cool (Artie helped me iron the bugs out). I have a 3-way min toggle that affects how the middle pickup is added to what is selected by the 4-way.

down serial
middle bypass
up parallel


Throw in some no-load volume and tone pots (tone for bridge and neck/middle) and you have some serious versatility.

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

Kent,

What you say is 1/475 + 1/250 = 1/163.75, no? But I am sure that's not what I am doing. Because I ended up measuring ~350K. So what am I doing? Gotta check it. Meanwhile, expect my PMs. You asked for it!

B

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

Kent,

What you say is 1/475 + 1/250 = 1/163.75, no?

Yeah ... 475k in parallel with 250k ...

But I am sure that's not what I am doing. Because I ended up measuring ~350K. So what am I doing?

That's what I'm wondering ...

Gotta check it. Meanwhile, expect my PMs. You asked for it!

B

Send it on, let me know how you are wiring it ... are you running 250k resistor in parallel with the CW and CCW lugs of the pot ... (hence 250k to ground); or are you running it in parallel with the Wiper and CCW lugs of the pot (hence altering the pots load when turned up and it's taper)? Look forward to the PMs. :cool3:

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

Kent,

Thanks for the time man!

I checked it and here is what I did, and how I came up with my wrong formula.

The resistance unit is 270K on my meter. I am connecting it to the center lug and the ground. Without the cap it measures 275K with the tone pot connected. The usual reading I suppose for ~500K vol ~500K tone pot, a little higher tho like 550K no? With the cap connected I am reading a value of 138K for the whole circuit. Then in my mind I somehow did associate this with a wiring that consists of 2 ~280K pots. And I simply cannot see where this number 350K came out of. Maybe I remember the wiring I have done with a 400K resistance unit. Dunno?

Actually now I am not sure anymore if my vol pot is 475K at all. I might have changed it, as I was trying to accomodate the JD lead on my hardash maple tele which is bright anyway.

Let me know of your suggestions and the flaws in my reasoning.

Thanks.

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

Kent,

Thanks for the time man!

I checked it and here is what I did, and how I came up with my wrong formula.

The resistance unit is 270K on my meter. I am connecting it to the center lug and the ground. Without the cap it measures 275K with the tone pot connected.

Here's where I start to get confused, you keep saying *cap* and you are talking about a resistor? *What*exactly measures 275k without the cap, it sounds like you are using an RC (resistor and capacitor) as a combination of a high end roll off to ground (LPF), but then a capacitor would block the DC of the meter so it wouldn't even *see* that resistor in parallel. I'm a little confused here...

The usual reading I suppose for ~500K vol ~500K tone pot, a little higher tho like 550K no?

Well again, that capacitor in the tone control circuit, after it charges up to the DC of the meter ( a second or so, if that long), will block it; so the tone pot's value won't be *seen* by the meter.
[/quote]
With the cap connected I am reading a value of 138K for the whole circuit. [/quote]
Again, there is that term *cap*, not sure if you're just referring to a resistor here ... if its a resistor of ~270k and the pot is ~475k that should give you ~ 172k ... BUT, with a reading of ~138k if the resistor is ~270k then the pot value would have to be *~282k* (1/270k {R} + 1/282k {Pot R}= ~138k {Total R}), so something is amiss here ... :scratchch :boggled:

Then in my mind I somehow did associate this with a wiring that consists of 2 ~280K pots. And I simply cannot see where this number 350K came out of. Maybe I remember the wiring I have done with a 400K resistance unit. Dunno?

Actually now I am not sure anymore if my vol pot is 475K at all. I might have changed it, as I was trying to accomodate the JD lead on my hardash maple tele which is bright anyway.

Let me know of your suggestions and the flaws in my reasoning.

Thanks.

I guess the main thing is that it works for ya ...You probably just remembered another wiring you did earlier (like you suggested), and take a CTS stock pot for instance ... tolerance of +/- 20%, with a 500k pot that could mean anywhere from 400k ~ 600k; although in all honestly they are generally much closer to there rstated value then that (as you know), then of course the resistor is most likely +/- 5% (unless you using a metal-film +/- 1% ), so there is definitely so room for some error in there. Still, you sure that's not a 250k Pot? 282k is well outside the 20% tolerance mark ... thermal damage maybe? :saeek:

 

[59paul]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

Lew, are you gonna call that the " Blue " Strat wiring ??? lol. Ya better hurry up and Patent it, before Curly and John read this thread LOL !!!....

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

Kent,

Again thanks for the time man. This is a great dialogue!

Sorry for the confusion, I need to be precise in my terms.

As I said before I thought the vol pot measured 475K, but am not too sure now. I did not want to mess the wiring just to measure it you know.

Consider the tele wiring, with 0.033 capacitor. For now forget the 270K resistor for a second. Connecting the black wire of the meter to the center lug of the vol pot, and the red wire of the meter to ground registers a reading of 275K.

Now with the 270K resistor connecting the center lug of the vol pot to ground if active; the same reading is 140K.

Although not entirely correct I figured then (i.e. with the resistor active) the whole circuit pretends to be a ~280K vol ~280K tone pot. I think thats not a too bad assumption, no?

When I was doing this I also tired other values for the resistors. Higher ones would increase the overall reading that I described above. (A very high K resistor would mean not connecting the center lug of the vol pot to the ground. Thus I figure the upperbound is simply 275K.) About the 350K business that must be it. But one thing is for sure, now I am using a 270K resistor in a 500K vol 500K pot setup, and it works great for the JD bridge.

BTW I very much appreciate all this, because now I know more then what I knew before this thread!

B

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

Kent,

Again thanks for the time man. This is a great dialogue!

Sorry for the confusion, I need to be precise in my terms.

As I said before I thought the vol pot measured 475K, but am not too sure now. I did not want to mess the wiring just to measure it you know.

LOL! ... :laugh2: i was getting ready to say, don't rip it apart on my account please ...

Consider the tele wiring, with 0.033 capacitor. For now forget the 270K resistor for a second. Connecting the black wire of the meter to the center lug of the vol pot, and the red wire of the meter to ground registers a reading of 275K.

And that's the part to me that doesn't make sense, I don't know why you are getting the reading that you are getting, sense they are both ~500k pots, that cap should still keep the tone pot out of the equation,with or without the '50's mod. If the pups were connected to the circuit that would pull the reading down slightly lower than the pup(s) ratings (or combined ratings). I just don't know why you are getting a 275k reading with a ~500k pot,you could try clipping the leads in place, and wait for the cap to charge up (that way you know it will be blocking the DC of the meter).

Now with the 270K resistor connecting the center lug of the vol pot to ground if active; the same reading is 140K.

Again which would be consistant with the reading that you got from the pot, but not what the pot should be for it's stated rating ... It would be consistant with a ~250k pot though. Odd to say the least... :question:

Although not entirely correct I figured then (i.e. with the resistor active) the whole circuit pretends to be a ~280K vol ~280K tone pot. I think thats not a too bad assumption, no?

Well, the assumnption of a 500k pot paralleled with a 270k resistance again we would have (1/500k + 1/270k = 1/~175k ) ~175k; with a lower valued pot it drops even lower...

When I was doing this I also tired other values for the resistors. Higher ones would increase the overall reading that I described above. (A very high K resistor would mean not connecting the center lug of the vol pot to the ground. Thus I figure the upperbound is simply 275K.)

Yeah, generally that rule of 10 comes into play as far as loading is concerned; curiously though pickups are still sensitive to changes in the amplitudes of their resonant Fc peaks with increases (or decreases) in the load above a magnitude of 10.

About the 350K business that must be it.

Again the rule of ten comes into play ... if it's a 500k pot, then you need at least a 5Meg resistor to have a null effect ... but as we see here ...
(1/500k - 1/5Meg = 1/ ~455k ) we still need to increase it a bit, even with a 10meg ... (1/500k + 1/10Meg = 1/~ 476k ). Even so it would be well within the tolerance of a 20% 500k pot. Sligtly off topic, but worth mentioning anyway I felt.

But one thing is for sure, now I am using a 270K resistor in a 500K vol 500K pot setup, and it works great for the JD bridge.

Well, that's whats important! I'm just perplexed as to how a 500k pot is measuring 275k ... :saeek: :wrf:

BTW I very much appreciate all this, because now I know more then what I knew before this thread!

B

Cool!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

Lew, are you gonna call that the " Blue " Strat wiring ??? lol. Ya better hurry up and Patent it, before Curly and John read this thread LOL !!!....

Thanks!

I wish I could patent it but the Tele 5 way switch thing with a tapped lead pickup is right there on the Duncan wiring diagrams for Tele page. I just superimposed it on a Strat and added the idea of adding the middle pickup with a blender pot.

But hey, if you guys want to call it Lew's Blue Strat mod, that'd be cool with me! 10 great tones out of a stock looking Strat or 3 pickup Nashville Tele would be a pretty useful set up. :dance:

I'll probably do this on my WHITE Strat...it came to me with a Dimarzio Super Distortion humbucker hacked into the bridge position and ever since seeing that Strat of Dr. Barlo's with the Tele lead pickup I've been thinking about ordering a new pickuguard for that guitar that would allow me to put the tapped Tele lead pickup MJ is winding me in my white Strat.

I just a put a set of the Antiquity II's in that guitar...but that guitar has had many, many pickups in it over the years.

Lew

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

Kent,

The readings I have taken were done after taking the hot wire (to the 5way switch) off the center lug of the vol pot. See? Of course if the pickups are connected I should be getting readings ~6-8K.

When the vol and tone are connected (not necc in the 50's fashion) the overall reading would be 1/volpotK + 1/tonepotK = 1/xK, where x is the reading I obtain. That is what measures 275K without the 270 resistor, and then 140K with the resistor. SO I figure the average vol and tone pot on that tele of mine is 550, as 550/2 = 275. Then by the same token taking a huge (and maybe stupid step) when I see a reading of 140K, I say it can be assumed as if it comes from a set of 280K vol pot, and 280K tone pot. I am so far from being an expert, yet what I hear confirms this assumption.

Let me know if I am missing a brick in my reasoning.

Best,

B

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

Kent,

The readings I have taken were done after taking the hot wire (to the 5way switch) off the center lug of the vol pot. See? Of course if the pickups are connected I should be getting readings ~6-8K.

Yeah, parallel resistance will always be lower than the lowest R value involved, and the farther apart the r values are, the closer it gets to the lower value ... okay, cool....

When the vol and tone are connected (not necc in the 50's fashion) the overall reading would be 1/volpotK + 1/tonepotK = 1/xK, where x is the reading I obtain. That is what measures 275K without the 270 resistor, and then 140K with the resistor. SO I figure the average vol and tone pot on that tele of mine is 550, as 550/2 = 275. Then by the same token taking a huge (and maybe stupid step) when I see a reading of 140K, I say it can be assumed as if it comes from a set of 280K vol pot, and 280K tone pot. I am so far from being an expert, yet what I hear confirms this assumption.

Let me know if I am missing a brick in my reasoning.

Best,

B

Okay I see what you're saying now,I wasn't quite getting how you associated it at first, and I agree with it you're think here ... except I still don't know why the meter is seeing the tone pot, as it's path to ground (well the signal point (wiper) to ground has to go through the tone pots capacitor (no matter how it's connected {pre VR, post VR, to wiper, to hot terminal, etc.}, and caps don't pass DC, the meter uses a DC current to establish a resistance reading, and that DC will be blocked by the cap after it charges up to it, you might get a small amount of leakage thru, but it shouldn't be that much. since the current is blocked from going to ground (thru the cap) the circuit is not completed (that particular branch rather), and is open ... infinite resistance for that branch. As far as I can see you're not doing anything wrong, and you're reasoning is solid (I didn't get what you were sayng at first in regard to the pot value) ... although, and it doesn't matter, but the black probe should go to ground ... pet peeve of mine ... :laugh2: , like I said it doesn't matter here though.
I've done continuity checks, but have never measured the resistance of an assembled guitar circuit (never had a reason to check it), still that cap shouldn't be doing that? :scratchch :dunno: :boggled:

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

Cool!

But I don't see why the cap should not affect things. I mean isn't it normal for the meter to see the tone pot too. To make my point suppose I have the following wiring for the circuit: The lower lug of the vol pot connected to the upper lug of the tone pot with a wire (no caps there); and the center lug of the tone pot has the one leg of the cap, where the other leg is soldered to the ground. (The lugs of the pots face eastwards.)

This is the standard modern wiring no? And now I don't see why the meter should not register also for the tone pot. see?

Anyway I am glad to see that afterall what I have is not done by shere coincidence, and the reasoning behind it is not stupid. And as you say, the all black wires were soldered to the ground!

Best,

B

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

Capacitors block DC once charged, take an isolated cap, clip the probes to it and at first you'll see it's resistance read very low, then the resistance will start to increase more and more as the cap charges, until finally the resistance reaches infinity (or a very high resistance amount). At that point the cap will be blocking the DC from passing thru it. Now I have seen some caps leak DC, but what you're describing here would be a cap that has shorted, or partially so ... That wouldn't be the case here since everything is working correctly.
What you have described here is equal to taking two resistors in series (one volume and one tone), clipping one probe to one end, and the other to the middle connection, and leaving the end of the other resistor floating unconnected ... *But it is connected to ground* you say, thus putting both resistors (pots) in parallel ... yes, but it's connected to ground by *thru a capacitor* That cap looks like an open circuit to the DC, thus the connection is not completed to put them in parallel ... the meter doesn't see the other resistor (pot). Now, it will at first ,until the cap charges ... See?

The only way I can see the meter seeing the other pot , given the wiring and probe placement that you have explained here, is if you had the common probe (black) clipped to ground, and the hot probe (red) { the polarity doesn't matter here, only given as a referrence mind you for others viewing this} clipped to the wiper of the one pot with both controls at *10*. However, that would be placing both pots in series with each other, and not in parallel.
This means that the cap is passing DC, completing the parallel circuit between the two pots, with the knobs at 10 the DC has to go thru the resistance of the pots, so that lengthens the charge time of the cap.

Try this ... Disconnect the cap from ground, and leave it disconnected ... then take the readings (that is, if you actually want to check it, otherwise just roll with it). Anyway, that's why they cap should affect the readings, I'm at a loss as to why you are getting the readings that you are; However, what you are doing with the resistor is changing the load on the pups, and altering the pot's taper. (That's for everyone else viewing). Hey keep me updated on that 7 way switch please, let me know when you hear from your friend/associate regarding it, thanks!
Maybe it can get thru this post with no syntax errors on my part ... :laugh2:

 

[beandip]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

I thought of one (sorta) with a treblebleed on the middle and bridge (mines just the bridge) and a bassbleed on the neck and middle (supposed to be master). It has a 1000pf cap and a .22uF cap. thats about all I know, I got it off of www.customsounds.com in the article's section.

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

Kent,

I am gonna be trying that out. And don't worry I will get the info on the 7 way switch in early July.

One thing tho, in a vol tone wiring the upper lug of the vol pot, and the lower lug of the tone pot is already grounded. So if I were to solder off the cap connecting the center lug to the ground (and since it blocks all the DC) the reading should not change. And if that cap is soldered off from the ground, then the result consists of 2 resistors in series. No? Hence my reading!

Does that make sense?

Ok I am gonna be checking more on that with my soldering iron and meter ready!

B

 

[Lightning]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

B, I know your intent was to roll off some treble. I just glanced this thread and I don't think anyone covered this yet. If you add a master vol to a stock LP all 3 volumes nead to be 1 meg. Even with all 3 volumes at one meg in the middle pos you will lose more signal to ground than with stock, but using the PUs individually the shunt to ground is same as stock 500k so no additional loss.

*******You could add a 10 meg master volume and the resistance will still be less than the lowest resistance in parallel in the circuit.*******

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Thought of a cool new STRAT wiring....

Kent,

I am gonna be trying that out. And don't worry I will get the info on the 7 way switch in early July.

Thanks! ...

One thing tho, in a vol tone wiring the upper lug of the vol pot, and the lower lug of the tone pot is already grounded.

:question: The lower lug of the tone pot (as you described earlier ... both pots with their lugs facing eastwards) being grounded would be the unused lug on the tone pot ... That doesn't get grounded in a normal tone control useage ... why do you have that lug grounded? So you are telling me that you have all three tone pot lugs connected??? One connecting to via wire to the volume pot *hot* terminal (the CCW lug of the tone pot), one connected to a grounded cap (the tone pot wiper), and one connected to ground ( the CW lug of the tone pot).

So if I were to solder off the cap connecting the center lug to the ground (and since it blocks all the DC) the reading should not change. And if that cap is soldered off from the ground, then the result consists of 2 resistors in series. No? Hence my reading!

Does that make sense?

Ok I am gonna be checking more on that with my soldering iron and meter ready!

B

If the third lug of that tone pot is grounded, then yeah it puts that pot in parallel with the volume pot, and THAT makes sense. I gotta go back and reread your original post, because I must have missed that *most important and crucial piece of info*. That changes everything ... :smack: