Thoughts about strange p90 pup combo

[zionstrat]

Had planned to build a mahogany warmoth p90 this summer, but between budget, vacation, and gigs (at least gigs made the list it's becoming clear that it won't happen until fall at earliest-

So I figured I would use this time to consider all of the mods that I've heard over the years to see if I can come up with some pretty unusual, usable sounds and I'm starting with the following list- I think I’ve come up with a very unusual but hopefully useful combinations and would like your opinions on the potential timber, wiring intricacies, and of course your suggestions on pups themselves-

The purpose would be the regular P90 work, blues, 60s rock with a little more flexibility than the regular 3 way

At this point I am considering an L5S body routed HSH or PSP I’m leaning towards P90 routing to use the real things- But using phat cats or bluesbucker with hum routing would give me more options in the case I’ve designed a dog and have to drop back to humbuckers.

Here’s the real kicker- I want to look at a SC dual rails pup in the center with it’s own 5 way parallel to the p90s that are on their own 5 way- Yes, I know it’s weird, and we’re talking about 2 knife switches right next to each other, but here’s what I’m imagining- I’m going to start from Artie’s 4 position tele mod but hoping to get 1 extra position in #4-

P90 Switch
1. Bridge
2. Bridge+neck parallel
3. Bridge + neck series
4. Bridge + neck series out of phase
5. Neck

SC dual rail switch
1. Off
2. single coil that is hum complimentary to bridge P90
3. Full SC rail with spin a split
4. Single coil that is hum complimentary to neck P90
5. P90s off, full SC rail with spin a split

So many of these combinations look really interesting to me, but besides the obvious question of is it even possible, what do you think this would sound like?

Am I reinventing the wheel? Has anyone done this before?

Do you think that the rail single coils would actually hum cancel with a p90?

I can imagine some of the wiring, but is it possible to invert phase off of a standard 5 way as I’ve listed for #4 on the P90s (I’ve got a friend who gets a great sound with a tele and PAF with toggles and hoping the combination might be similar)-

I think the off position for the SC rail (#1) is a no brainier, but what about position # 5 where it would have to break the P90s output and provide both coils of the SC rail? Haven’t even come close to that one yet-

Anyway, no rush, I’ve got most of the summer to think about it

Also to ease swithing I had considered putting prefered combinations at the same position which would be less intuitive, but easier to switch on the fly-

SC dual rail switch
1. single coil that is hum complimentary to bridge P90
2. Off
3. Full SC rail with spin a split
4. P90s off, full SC rail with spin a split
5. Single coil that is hum complimentary to neck P90

Looking forward to your input!

 

[Artie]

Re: Thoughts about strange p90 pup combo

I’m going to start from Artie’s 4 position tele mod

I knew I was gonna get blamed for this. :laugh2:

P90 Switch
1. Bridge
2. Bridge+neck parallel
3. Bridge + neck series
4. Bridge + neck series out of phase
5. Neck

SC dual rail switch
1. Off
2. single coil that is hum complimentary to bridge P90
3. Full SC rail with spin a split
4. Single coil that is hum complimentary to neck P90
5. P90s off, full SC rail with spin a split

So many of these combinations look really interesting to me, but besides the obvious question of is it even possible, what do you think this would sound like?

Am I reinventing the wheel? Has anyone done this before?

I love interesting, and oddball wiring combo's. I'll look this over and see what fly's.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Thoughts about strange p90 pup combo

You know my favorite definition of a leader..one who goes places and does things and finds out that everyone else wants to do it as well

BTW are you an aviation nut as well? Cought your joystick reffernce in another post and I had planned to go that route until I found out that 20/200 eyesite wont get you in the military- Still fly right seat as often as I can get it and have the luck of some recent bbj jumpseating as well-

Thx for looking this over!

 

[Artie]

Re: Thoughts about strange p90 pup combo

I've never gotten any flying time, other than as a passenger, but I work in avionics at a Naval Air Station, so on a daily basis I'm walking through hangers where F-18's and P3 Orions are stripped down to their air frames.

So, yeah . . . aviation is on my mind.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Thoughts about strange p90 pup combo

Gads...heaven! You've got the best of both worlds and you get paid for the aviation side- That's about as good as it gets

Looked up NADEP and see you get to play with vikings too- you are one blessed puppy ih my book-

 

[Artie]

Re: Thoughts about strange p90 pup combo

Gads...heaven! You've got the best of both worlds and you get paid for the aviation side- That's about as good as it gets

Looked up NADEP and see you get to play with vikings too- you are one blessed puppy ih my book-

Nah . . . if it was private sector it would be cool.
Working avionics for the Gov't is like playing lead guitar for ABBA.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Thoughts about strange p90 pup combo

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Thoughts about strange p90 pup combo

Bump-
Come on with all the p90 talk, someones got to have an opinion and I can't work poor Artie too hard!

 

[Guest]

Re: Thoughts about strange p90 pup combo

I thought it wasn't possible to get parallel, series and out-of-phase using single coils. Was it always possible or i it some new kind of switch?
BTW, that sounds really cool, I might use it if its possible

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Thoughts about strange p90 pup combo

I thought it wasn't possible to get parallel, series and out-of-phase using single coils. Was it always possible or i it some new kind of switch?
BTW, that sounds really cool, I might use it if its possible

LSP- I found out the hard way in high school- put a high gain strat replacement in a freinds gtr as i was the only one who could use a soldering iron in the neighborhood and for some reason it was great in the bridge but aweful in position 2- that was my introduction to put of phase and it took me the better part of a week in the library in preinternet days to figure out what went wrong

Much of the confusion (and I still bounce into it today- ask those on the forum who know what they are doing and have straingtened me out) is exactly what you said- the differnce in coils in a humbucker or single coils-

really you can think of them all as single coils, but they dont look that way, sometimes they dont act that way, and we tend to wire coils within a humucker exactly opposite of 2 single coils by themselves adding to the confusion

But in my own simple little dictionary, here's how define the terms above:
Out of phase- When any 2 coils are wired exactly the opposite- ie the flow is clockwise in one coil and counterclockwise in the other- this happens when you use the same type of coil and treat the positive as the negitive on the 2nd- Essentially they now see the strings exactly opposite- when one sees a positive movement the other sees negitive and much of the sound cancels out explaining what I had done to my friends pup!

Series means that the output of one coil feeds through to the input of the next coil- This is the default wiring on the inside of a humbucker, but you can do this with any 2 coils-

Paralel means that the input signal splits into the inputs of two coils and their combined output becomes the output signal- This is the usual wiring of 3 strat or 2 hums-

Isn't this fun? Now we need to run scales for 20 minutes to make it relevant

 

[Guest]

Re: Thoughts about strange p90 pup combo

LSP- I found out the hard way in high school- put a high gain strat replacement in a freinds gtr as i was the only one who could use a soldering iron in the neighborhood and for some reason it was great in the bridge but aweful in position 2- that was my introduction to put of phase and it took me the better part of a week in the library in preinternet days to figure out what went wrong

Much of the confusion (and I still bounce into it today- ask those on the forum who know what they are doing and have straingtened me out) is exactly what you said- the differnce in coils in a humbucker or single coils-

really you can think of them all as single coils, but they dont look that way, sometimes they dont act that way, and we tend to wire coils within a humucker exactly opposite of 2 single coils by themselves adding to the confusion

But in my own simple little dictionary, here's how define the terms above:
Out of phase- When any 2 coils are wired exactly the opposite- ie the flow is clockwise in one coil and counterclockwise in the other- this happens when you use the same type of coil and treat the positive as the negitive on the 2nd- Essentially they now see the strings exactly opposite- when one sees a positive movement the other sees negitive and much of the sound cancels out explaining what I had done to my friends pup!

Series means that the output of one coil feeds through to the input of the next coil- This is the default wiring on the inside of a humbucker, but you can do this with any 2 coils-

Paralel means that the input signal splits into the inputs of two coils and their combined output becomes the output signal- This is the usual wiring of 3 strat or 2 hums-

Isn't this fun? Now we need to run scales for 20 minutes to make it relevant

So that means I can take a guitar with single coils and get series, parallel and series out of phase? Cool, I always wanted to get that but always ben told I needed some strange switch like the one discribed in treblebooster.com. Well, when its time for me to start my oldering I'l ask how to get that.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Thoughts about strange p90 pup combo

What kind of gtr do you have? I always like to imagine mods that I won't have to implement

You need some kind of switch to do these, but much depends on your model and your tastes- For example, phase reverse is one of the easiest (not gauranteeing that you will find it useful by itself) and all you need is a double pole double throw switch for that one- If you are into mods you might be able to drill a little hole though your pickgaurd and mount a mini switch and shouldn't take you more than an afternoon even if you have never touched a soldering iron- Or a push pull pot can do this and keep the guitar stock-

Other mods can be quite easy if you use multiple switches or quite hard if you try to combine them on a small number of switches (as I am trying to do with these P90s)

Search for wirign dieagrams here and on guitarnuts.com to get ideas and a good example of all of this except phase is in ArtieToo's tele mod thread here on this site-

Have fun and post questions- This is a grat place to ask!

 

[Guest]

Re: Thoughts about strange p90 pup combo

What kind of guitar do I have? Nothing electric. Thats why I came here, to learn more about pickups for the guitar I'm eventually gonna build. I'm thinking something with either a p90n/teleb (telecaster) or two p90's (LPjr) and I'd like to have the most versatility. But I was asking right now mainly as because I thought it was impossible. Either way, when it come to start soldering I'll ask exactly how to get what I want. Thanks

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Thoughts about strange p90 pup combo

LSP- I'm impressed that you are doing your research- This is a good board and you will pick up a lot- Good luck!