Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

[SongsForTheDeaf]

so I used my Traynor YGL2 for the first time at loud volumes at rehearsal last night and at around 4 on the volume knob which is pretty loud the sound is full on power tube distorted... is this normal or should I replace the tubes with JJs which I have laying around ?

If not that how else could I get more clean headroom so I can actually use my drive and fuzz pedals without it turning to mush

The Traynor YGL2 is cathode biased EL84 30 watts with a single celestion vintage 30, tubes are in it from factory and the amp was bought new in November..

 

[erksin]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

What is in the preamp?

And yeah - try those JJs.

Another option is to yank the stock speaker and go with something that won't break up so quickly.

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

What is in the preamp?

And yeah - try those JJs.

Another option is to yank the stock speaker and go with something that won't break up so quickly.

It has 3 12ax7s in the preamp section. I will replace the tubes today and see if that helps but what speaker has less breakup and is somewhat affordable ? I was considering trading this amp for a deville or twin reverb online but I don't wanna give up on it too quick, I love the sound of this amp at medium volume with pedals

 

[erksin]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

I was going to suggest you try subbing a 5751 in v1 - that should clean the amp up some without sacrificing attack characteristics.

What speaker is in it now?

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

I was going to suggest you try subbing a 5751 in v1 - that should clean the amp up some without sacrificing attack characteristics.

What speaker is in it now?

Ok I will check out that tube, I will be honest I'm not very experienced with tubes and biasing etc... Right now there is a Anniversary edition Celestion Vintage 30 in it

 

[erksin]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

You don't need to bias for preamp tube swaps. Find yourself a good NOS 5751 (RCA, Phillips, Sylvania, etc) - it will go a long way to cleaning that thing up. Those JJ EL84s should too. I think the speaker is the last piece you should look at if the tube swaps don't get it done.

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

ok I will buy the NOS 5751 now online and try it with the new JJ EL84s...thanks again for the help Erksin!

PS I got a new SFT in the mail after sending mine in, man does it feel good to have it back on my board!

 

[Dr. Lo]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

Changing your power tubes will not give you substantially more headroom. However, swapping out one or more of your 12AX7 preamp tubes with a lower gain variety, such as a 12AT7, will definitely give you less (preamp) breakup. If that still doesn't float your boat, you could get a Bad Cat Unleash, which is a reamping device. I have one and it's awesome. It will allow you to keep the gain/volume dial on your amp low so that you have a cleaner tone, but will give you power so that you're heard in a band context.

 

[erksin]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

Changing your power tubes will not give you substantially more headroom. However, swapping out one or more of your 12AX7 preamp tubes with a lower gain variety, such as a 12AT7, will definitely give you less (preamp) breakup. If that still doesn't float your boat, you could get a Bad Cat Unleash, which is a reamping device. I have one and it's awesome. It will allow you to keep the gain/volume dial on your amp low so that you have a cleaner tone, but will give you power so that you're heard in a band context.

Ever try the JJs, Doc? They're considerably cleaner on breakup than other EL84s. He should see an increase in headroom, clarity, and possibly a little more output too.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

Maybe try different phase inverter types like a 12AU7 or 12AT7. You might just be getting a lot of that tube's distortion in there.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

For the position 1 preamp tube option, here are some related gain factors to help decide:
12AX7A / ECC83 - 100% of the input signal
5751 - 70%
12AT7 / ECC81 - 60%
12AY7 - 44%
12AU7 / ECC82 - 20%

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

I was curious about the Phase Inverter tube because I keep reading on how a lot of cranked breakup characteristics come from the phase inverter tube so that's worth a look too... is it possible to put a 5751 in the phase inverter position aswell ??

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

For the position 1 preamp tube option, here are some related gain factors to help decide:
12AX7A / ECC83 - 100% of the input signal
5751 - 70%
12AT7 / ECC81 - 60%
12AY7 - 44%
12AU7 / ECC82 - 20%

very helpful !! would a 12ay7 sound alright ? I crank my amp up decently high to keep up with my brothers amp which is 60 watts 6L6

It's between the 5751 and 12ay7 now

 

[Stratovarious]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

When I bought my Laney VC30, the guy I got it off was a bit of tinkerer, and he had recently retubed it. He told me he had put in EL84M's because they didn't break up too much. I can't remember if they were Mullard or Sovteks (sorry). But his words indeed rang true, up till about 7-8, there is barely any breakup, and it's freaking loud by this point

After a quick bit of googling, it would seem they were Sovtek

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

When I bought my Laney VC30, the guy I got it off was a bit of tinkerer, and he had recently retubed it. He told me he had put in EL84M's because they didn't break up too much. I can't remember if they were Mullard or Sovteks (sorry). But his words indeed rang true, up till about 7-8, there is barely any breakup, and it's freaking loud by this point

After a quick bit of googling, it would seem they were Sovtek

interesting, they are safe to use in my amp ?

 

[zzmoore]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

You are fine to try the M tubes.
You can try any of those tubes in the PI.
But just to be clear. No Tube Change will give you MORE headroom.
All you are doing is increasing the ratio on the sweep of the pot.
That is to say.....with an AX7 in the PI, the amp may go off at 3 on the V knob. With an AT7 you may be good up to 5 on the V knob.....but the VOLUME will be the same.
Not more headroom, just a more friendly ratio on the V or G knob.
A more efficient speaker WILL give you more headroom
good luck

 

[Van Noord]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

I was curious about the Phase Inverter tube because I keep reading on how a lot of cranked breakup characteristics come from the phase inverter tube so that's worth a look too... is it possible to put a 5751 in the phase inverter position aswell ??

Yes, do it. It should yield the most result. A high gain tube in the PI spot will only push the power section harder. Try a calmer sounding/performing tube there.

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

Ok I will try the 5751 in the PI position and V1 just to be sure, should take a few days for the tubes to be shipped

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

For the position 1 preamp tube option, here are some related gain factors to help decide:
12AX7A / ECC83 - 100% of the input signal
5751 - 70%
12AT7 / ECC81 - 60%
12AY7 - 44%
12AU7 / ECC82 - 20%

Shouldn't all your numbers be multiplied by 100? 100% is unity gain.

 

[Van Noord]

Re: Tips on getting more headroom out of EL84 30 watter

Shouldn't all your numbers be multiplied by 100? 100% is unity gain.

From TheTubeStore;

"One simple tweak that is favored by guitar amp users is to plug in a pre-amp tube with a slightly different gain factor.
The gain factor of a tube simply measures how much it amplifies the input signal. For example, the common 12AX7 tube has a gain factor of 100, while a 5751 tube (which is often used in place of a 12AX7) has a gain factor of 70. This means that if you plug a 5751 into a socket that expects a 12AX7, the pre-amp will have about 30% less gain. Not only will this make the amp quieter, but it can also alter the sound by making the power section work harder when you turn it up."