tips on making single notes thicker

[erksin]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

My advice is sound, I stand by it 100%... the OP has a notch in his mids.

Nowhere in any of his posts does he state that he has a 'notch' in his mids - in fact he claims he has plenty. He simply wants a fatter sound out of the plain strings.

While I agree the name calling is lame and uncalled for, I also think you've misinterpreted the OP's issue.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

My advice is sound, I stand by it 100%... the OP has a notch in his mids.

Tonal ladder in the tights eh?

 

[MkIII Renegade]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

Lots of good tips here. Also, don't forget to have a good amp/setup. For example, my Marshall TSL100 could never produce the kind of rich lead tones I desire even with mids/bass on 10, so I sold it (no point in using a pedal as a crutch). Cue the Mesa MkIII and tank-like 4x12, and I sound like myself again. I don't feel any need to add overdrive or delay, I am in love with the amp's natural tone, especially when paired with the cabinet it was designed for.

There is a point with big strings and also heavy mid EQ when you start to lose the coveted crystalline clean sound when you are ready for that, so keep that in mind (not to mention some of the brilliance that rock/metal players like for distorted lead tones). The standard gauge I use is 10-46 for my six strings and 10-58 for the seven. Some of the fattest lead AND crunch tones ever created have been on 9s and 10s, so don't buy into the old-man-in-guitar-store or intraweb myths that you can't make it happen without telephone wires.

Also, I must admit I haven't read every post here, but I haven't seen someone mention scalloping the fretboard. This helps to create a louder unamplified single note, which will of course be passed on through your pickups.

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

Lots of good tips here. Also, don't forget to have a good amp/setup. For example, my Marshall TSL100 could never produce the kind of rich lead tones I desire even with mids/bass on 10, so I sold it (no point in using a pedal as a crutch). Cue the Mesa MkIII and tank-like 4x12, and I sound like myself again. I don't feel any need to add overdrive or delay, I am in love with the amp's natural tone, especially when paired with the cabinet it was designed for.

There is a point with big strings and also heavy mid EQ when you start to lose the coveted crystalline clean sound when you are ready for that, so keep that in mind (not to mention some of the brilliance that rock/metal players like for distorted lead tones). The standard gauge I use is 10-46 for my six strings and 10-58 for the seven. Some of the fattest lead AND crunch tones ever created have been on 9s and 10s, so don't buy into the old-man-in-guitar-store or intraweb myths that you can't make it happen without telephone wires.

Also, I must admit I haven't read every post here, but I haven't seen someone mention scalloping the fretboard. This helps to create a louder unamplified single note, which will of course be passed on through your pickups.

Interesting... I have this problem with every amp I use though I will try adding some more mids with the amps before I look into a EQ pedal... Just curious but is the MXR 6 band EQ good ?

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

Tonal ladder in the tights eh?

Are you coming on to me? Or is this some more of that golden Aussie humor of yours? Really brilliant... I'm touched.

Nowhere in any of his posts does he state that he has a 'notch' in his mids - in fact he claims he has plenty. He simply wants a fatter sound out of the plain strings. I also think you've misinterpreted the OP's issue.

Oh no, I have been arrested by the misinterpreted thread police. lolz! You just had to step in and restore law and order right? Thanks Dad.

Do you normally jump on people when they give out free advice or is this just a new habit of yours?

He didn't state that he has a notch in his mids... but if the high notes don't have as much girth as his low notes, he most certainly does.

Interesting... I have this problem with every amp I use though I will try adding some more mids with the amps before I look into a EQ pedal... Just curious but is the MXR 6 band EQ good ?

Forget my advice... I was arrested by Catalinbread himself. You apparently just aren't picking at the right location. lolz

Why do people in this place always resort to pathetic personal insults. They have no place here.

Just disrespect at seemingly every turn, I can't even give out some simple advice without everyone's panties getting into a bunch.

Chill out people, the fact that I think that he has a notch in his mids is actually quite logical... saying that he needs delay or to pick near the neck just seems less logical to me

The OP is going to pick the best advice he can, you don't have to jump on other people because they give advice that you do not care for... GROW UP.

 

[erksin]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

Somebody needs to switch to decaf. I was actually on your side, but maybe this troll guy is on to something. lol

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

Somebody needs to switch to decaf. I was actually on your side, but maybe this troll guy is on to something. lol

As a former bouncer of 7 years straight at the same bar who helped stop countless fistfights, when the punches start flying... my fight or flight mechanism kicks on.

This was the internet version of one guy attacking me and a few other guys either getting in my way or actually helping the guy who is attacking me... forgive me for being a bit rude.

You might have been on my side in your mind, but not with your typing fingers... and I am not a mind reader from across the country. The Jimmy Page crack was a little off color.. I use an analog delay as an always on delay... it doesn't thicken the high notes... it adds ambience and warms up my sound... but it adds equal warmness to my low strings as it does my high notes. I ran into the exact problem the OP has when dialing up my latest rig last month or so. I had lots of boomy bass but the high notes seemed a bit thin and lacked punch. Like I mentioned before, I use a Weehbo JMP Drive which has controls for lows, low mids, mids, upper mids and highs... a complete tone stack. I had to carefully cut bass while boosting my low mids and midrange and voila, I had perfect balance across my strings and all of my notes.

I had a notch somewhere in my mids that I filled in and now I am good. So, imagine how much I wanted to help the OP the same way that Weehbo and my ears helped me.

Instead, I get the sort of animosity that people reserve for screw ups and miscreants. It's all rather depressing.

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

I appreciate ALL the advice I have been given but do agree that this problem I have had for awhile may need something a bit more drastic then short delay and picking position... I tried the delay trick last night and it added warmth and some thickness to the higher strings but it did add a weird treble artifact which sounded weird at medium volume so I'm sure it would not work at gig volume but I will try it next week at rehearsal. The picking and tone knob suggestions worked to a degree but I think I may need something like an EQ pedal and to be honest I have never owned an EQ pedal so I'm not 100 percent on how they work.

The JMP drive sounds cool but I really like my sound now with the Catalinbread SFT on all the time and my fuzzes and drives going into it so an EQ (before or after?) might do the trick I think ... I hope !

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

I appreciate ALL the advice I have been given but do agree that this problem I have had for awhile may need something a bit more drastic then short delay and picking position... I tried the delay trick last night and it added warmth and some thickness to the higher strings but it did add a weird treble artifact which sounded weird at medium volume so I'm sure it would not work at gig volume but I will try it next week at rehearsal. The picking and tone knob suggestions worked to a degree but I think I may need something like an EQ pedal and to be honest I have never owned an EQ pedal so I'm not 100 percent on how they work.

The JMP drive sounds cool but I really like my sound now with the Catalinbread SFT on all the time and my fuzzes and drives going into it so an EQ (before or after?) might do the trick I think ... I hope !

Oh, I just mentioned the JMP Drive since it was what I was working with and comes with complete EQ... just used it to illustrate my point. Catalinbread makes amazing pedals and I'm glad that you are pleased with the SFT!

It's the equivalent of only having a stereo drum submix but needing more beef on your tom toms or snare without adding any more girth to your floor tom and kick. The only way to solve that is to know the frequencies that the snare or tom tom vibrates in and that sit above the girth of the floor toms and kick. You can boost those frequencies while using a limiter at the end of the chain and PRESTO! You have more body to the snare and toms without muddying up or adding boom to the kick and floor toms. It's all in filling in the missing frequencies or notch.

You could use any graphic EQ to boost the range of 400Hz to 1kHz... this will add girth to your higher notes while not adding any more boom or mud to your lower notes. Your whole sound will thicken up to a certain extent but the best thing is the notch will be filled in. You could also focus on the area of 200Hz-400Hz... you could give that area a boost but you'd simultaneously have to carefully remove some bass frequencies on your amp to compensate for the extra lower midrange frequencies you just boosted to fill the notch. Likewise, you could boost some upper mids while cutting a bit of treble on your amp too.

I wish there was a music store that would let you bring your rig in to try some EQ pedals to see if it solves your problem... is there anywhere like that within driving distance?

I have a background in mastering and oftentimes, EQ is your only option since you don't have the option of changing the mix.

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

Oh, I just mentioned the JMP Drive since it was what I was working with and comes with complete EQ... just used it to illustrate my point. Catalinbread makes amazing pedals and I'm glad that you are pleased with the SFT!

It's the equivalent of only having a stereo drum submix but needing more beef on your tom toms or snare without adding any more girth to your floor tom and kick. The only way to solve that is to know the frequencies that the snare or tom tom vibrates in and that sit above the girth of the floor toms and kick. You can boost those frequencies while using a limiter at the end of the chain and PRESTO! You have more body to the snare and toms without muddying up or adding boom to the kick and floor toms. It's all in filling in the missing frequencies or notch.

You could use any graphic EQ to boost the range of 400Hz to 1kHz... this will add girth to your higher notes while not adding any more boom or mud to your lower notes. Your whole sound will thicken up to a certain extent but the best thing is the notch will be filled in. You could also focus on the area of 200Hz-400Hz... you could give that area a boost but you'd simultaneously have to carefully remove some bass frequencies on your amp to compensate for the extra lower midrange frequencies you just boosted to fill the notch. Likewise, you could boost some upper mids while cutting a bit of treble on your amp too.

I wish there was a music store that would let you bring your rig in to try some EQ pedals to see if it solves your problem... is there anywhere like that within driving distance?

I have a background in mastering and oftentimes, EQ is your only option since you don't have the option of changing the mix.

Yeah It would be nice to have a pedal that could fill in these frequencies and then I could kick it off when I want a thinner chimey sound that I have now... I do have a store in driving distance and they usually let me rent stuff first before I buy .. I hate to throw money at a problem like a chump so I'm trying everything I can free first but after doing many things these past days it has become evident I need something extra.. Its funny cause I had a fat boost by Fulltone but that did not fix the problem either.. I have researched and found the Boss EQ is noisier then the MXR and the MXR is only 80 bucks so I think I may pick one of those up and try the 400Hz slider up a bit and fiddle with the amps eq too

Ideally I want my setup to sound the same through the different amps I run through at rehearsal studios etc which the SFT really helps me do and the EQ will also help too!

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

Yeah It would be nice to have a pedal that could fill in these frequencies and then I could kick it off when I want a thinner chimey sound that I have now... I do have a store in driving distance and they usually let me rent stuff first before I buy .. I hate to throw money at a problem like a chump so I'm trying everything I can free first but after doing many things these past days it has become evident I need something extra.. Its funny cause I had a fat boost by Fulltone but that did not fix the problem either.. I have researched and found the Boss EQ is noisier then the MXR and the MXR is only 80 bucks so I think I may pick one of those up and try the 400Hz slider up a bit and fiddle with the amps eq too

Ideally I want my setup to sound the same through the different amps I run through at rehearsal studios etc which the SFT really helps me do and the EQ will also help too!

It's a store that rents gear? Oh, they'd let you bring your rig in to try out some pedals... hopefully they will have the Source Audio too since it is programmable.

The MXR EQ is the old standby... the 10 band will give you a LOT more flexibility than the 6 band.

If you use the EQ to just boost the mids, and don't use it as an overall level booster or boost the highs, than you won't experience any noise. With the 6 band, you might have to touch your amps controls a bit but with the 10 band, you can do it all on the pedal.

Good luck man! : )

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

Thanks I will try the 6 band first I think.. last question but where would I place it ? my pedalboard is in my signature ..

thanks to everyone for the help so far aswell I tried most suggestions and really appreciate the help with this problem I have been having

 

[MkIII Renegade]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

I use .10 Ernie Ball Regular Slinkys and Herco Flex 75 picks

Here is part of your problem----a girly man pick. o

I swear by Dunlop Gator Grip 1.14s. They have a distinct attack and feel that I could easily recognize vs a thin pick such as you describe.

Also, at the end of the day, you have to consider if your technique is lacking. Tone IS in the hands, meaning your overall technique. I bet Neal Schon could make your guitar sound better than you can. :14: And he's just a man......with major technique.

 

[blues]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

First thing what amp or amps are you using? ( It may be possible your using to much treble)

What guitar or guitars are you using?( You may want to back off on the tone control)

What pickups are you using?

Make sure your guitar is set up properly. IE: intonation,pickup height will vary but I dont think you would want then to close to the strings. Proper neck relief.

Go through all of the above options or questions before you go spending money on effects. Try and straighten out the basics first. We can be more helpful if we know more about your set up. Your trouble could be a result of some of the above things I mentioned.

If you dont take care of all of the above adding more to the mix like eq,delay ect wont really help you sound alot better. It may fatten up your sound but that dont always mean your overall tone will sound good.

Try to get a nice balanced clean tone before you add any effects. Work on your overall playing technique. Try different picks. Guys like Derek Trucks have a good sound just by plugging a good set up guitar into an amp that works well with the guitar he is using. He dont use picks just his fingers.

Set a goal for yourself on what kind of sound or tone you want to have. You may have to go through a bunch of different gear such as guitars,amps and effects. You can have the same gear as your favorite player and not sound like him.

Mark III Renegade said it well:: Also, at the end of the day, you have to consider if your technique is lacking. Tone IS in the hands, meaning your overall technique. I bet Neal Schon could make your guitar sound better than you can. And he's just a man......with major technique.

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

hey guys !!! I'm not girly Seriously though I picked up some ultex 1.0 mm Dunlop picks the other day and they feel way better and have better attack so I'm goanna stick with these instead of the herco flex 75s which I thought were not that thin but to each their own.

My setup varies because I use different amps at the rehearsal studio then at gigs and home but the problem is always the same.. my main amp is a Traynor YGL2

I think technique and how you play can only get you so far ... I'm sure Neal Schon (not sure who that is) would pickup my guitar into my rig and still find it thin because I have played through my friends and other bandmates setups and it sounds fuller and thicker ... not sure why my setup is so jangly and chimey but an EQ seems like a reasonable thing to help fix it for the long term. I will for sure look into adjusting pickups too ... I'm using a SD Custom Custom and Jazz in my main Godin

 

[MkIII Renegade]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

hey guys !!! I'm not girly Seriously though I picked up some ultex 1.0 mm Dunlop picks the other day and they feel way better and have better attack so I'm goanna stick with these instead of the herco flex 75s which I thought were not that thin but to each their own.

My setup varies because I use different amps at the rehearsal studio then at gigs and home but the problem is always the same.. my main amp is a Traynor YGL2

I think technique and how you play can only get you so far ... I'm sure Neal Schon (not sure who that is) would pickup my guitar into my rig and still find it thin because I have played through my friends and other bandmates setups and it sounds fuller and thicker ... not sure why my setup is so jangly and chimey but an EQ seems like a reasonable thing to help fix it for the long term. I will for sure look into adjusting pickups too ... I'm using a SD Custom Custom and Jazz in my main Godin

If you don't know who Neal Schon is, that's ANOTHER one of your problems. o Find out!! You can learn a lot from that man.

I have no doubt he could make your rig sing---with no excuses.

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

If you don't know who Neal Schon is, that's ANOTHER one of your problems. o Find out!! You can learn a lot from that man.

I have no doubt he could make your rig sing---with no excuses.

I did some research... not my style of music but very talented for sure

I watched some live videos of him and kinda think his tone is a little thin but again I like a totally different style

 

[jimijames]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

SongsfortheDeaf - what guitar are you using? I may have missed it but I don't recall seeing you mention it anywhere. If there's a mechanical issue then no amount of eq-ing will take it out. If you play your guitar acoustically, do you notice the same things? Thin tone on the high strings? It could be that a saddle is too low and a string is contacting something it shouldn't.

I also don't know how fast you need to play on the high strings, but Zak Wylde (hopefully that's spelled right) uses "chickin pickin" where he'll grab a string with his middle and ring fingers while using the pick. He plays pretty fast so I figure it's something that's worth a try.

I gave up using a pick a while ago but IME I don't sound any 'thicker' than I did before, but there's definitely less treble content in the sound so maybe that'll help. Worth a try at least. There are guys that can really burn with just their fingers so unless you're trying to do this you'll probably be fine playing with your fingers (if it ends up working for you, of course).

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

umm
the signature pedal board may be the culprit

may be an ........ dang what was the name of that effect from the Amplifier room?......\

the one for long signal chains

dang it

you may need one of those

there was a video on how to make one in the thread

what was that called ?

............. dang

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: tips on making single notes thicker

SongsfortheDeaf - what guitar are you using? I may have missed it but I don't recall seeing you mention it anywhere. If there's a mechanical issue then no amount of eq-ing will take it out. If you play your guitar acoustically, do you notice the same things? Thin tone on the high strings? It could be that a saddle is too low and a string is contacting something it shouldn't.

I also don't know how fast you need to play on the high strings, but Zak Wylde (hopefully that's spelled right) uses "chickin pickin" where he'll grab a string with his middle and ring fingers while using the pick. He plays pretty fast so I figure it's something that's worth a try.

I gave up using a pick a while ago but IME I don't sound any 'thicker' than I did before, but there's definitely less treble content in the sound so maybe that'll help. Worth a try at least. There are guys that can really burn with just their fingers so unless you're trying to do this you'll probably be fine playing with your fingers (if it ends up working for you, of course).

Its funny you mention it because my main guitar is a Godin 1998 LGX and it has a pretty annoying grounding problem that gets worse when I roll the volume knob back and let go of the strings... not sure if this would affect the thickness of the sound... I really love this guitar though feelwise