To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

Eblis

Eblis

New member
Alright here is the deal...

What I like to play:
Classic rock/ jammy type stuff, sometimes with moderate amount of overdrive through a Blues Jr. amp.

I'm eventually going to get a custom hollowbody and without being too scientific, I'd like to hear some opinions... :scratchch

Thinking of a Phat Cat neck with a Pearly Gates Bridge.
Both pickups nickel covered.

What Volume and Tone pot values would you use?

Layout of the guitar:
3 position toggle
2 Volume
1 Tone

What do you like about this combo?
What don't you like about it?
What other pickup combo would you use instead of a Phat Cat/ Humbucker set up?

Thanks,
Jason
 
Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

i've not tried the gates but would expect it to sound pretty sweet in that set-up.
i guess it depends on how much treble you like, but without having compared all available components i'd suggest 2 500K pots and a .022 or .033 tone cap; personally i'd seriously consider putting a treble bleed across your volume pot too, but i like bright.

i really like the phat cats; they're big, thick-sounding humbucker-sized P90s, and are closer to PAFs than P90s re the hum factor IMO. what's not to like?

clips pls
:deal:
 
Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

i've currently got that combo in my dot sudio! albeit, with an a5/a4 magnet combo in the phat cat as opposed to the stock a2/a2 configuration. it's definitely a great setup, with good clarity and meaty mids in the neck, and bright, raunchy hard rock tone from the bridge.

btw i use cts 500k pots for the volume, an alpha push/pull tone(coil split) and a .015 orange drop cap wired up 50s style. the 50s wiring keeps things from darkening up when i turn the volume down:)

edit: also, the phat cat doesn't hum as much as a normal p-90 since it's got the cover grounded through the baseplate, shielding it from any interference. don't get me wrong, it still hums. just not as much;)
 
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Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

I have a number of Phat Cats & play blues and classic rock. I'm not thrilled with Phat Cats with the stock magnets (twin A2's), as many of us here think they make the neck pretty dark. But when you put in a different combo to bump up the treble (A5/A2, A5/A3, A5/A4, or A5/A5) they suddenly get sparkle & life, and have that great open P-90 sound. Swapping magnets in them only takes a few minutes. So yes to Phat Cats, but you'll probably want to swap a magnet or two.

In numerous posts here, including one last week, the same opinions come up: while the PGN is a much-loved PU, the PGB doesn't have as many fans. I think a '59B with 250K's gives a better tone on the bridge (and you always want 500K's on a neck HB or P-90). In both PGB's and '59B's, some of us warmer magnets to fill in the mids (like an A4 or A8). Might also consider a pair of '59's (which I have in a full hollow body Ibanez, and they sound great).

You're on the right track with PAF and low output PU's, perfect for hollow bodies. Getting the tones you want may take a little tweaking with magnets & pots, but that's simple stuff we gladly teach anyone.
 
Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

Eblis said:
Alright here is the deal...

What I like to play:
Classic rock/ jammy type stuff, sometimes with moderate amount of overdrive through a Blues Jr. amp.

I'm eventually going to get a custom hollowbody and without being too scientific, I'd like to hear some opinions... :scratchch

Thinking of a Phat Cat neck with a Pearly Gates Bridge.
Both pickups nickel covered.

What Volume and Tone pot values would you use?

Layout of the guitar:
3 position toggle
2 Volume
1 Tone

What do you like about this combo?
What don't you like about it?
What other pickup combo would you use instead of a Phat Cat/ Humbucker set up?

Thanks,
Jason
Click to expand...
I had an Artcore AS83 semi-hollow with a Jazz neck and PG bridge with JP wiring and absolutely loved the combo.
The Jazz was creamy and rich and the PG was hairy and in-your-face.
Cranked through my little Class A, it was rock and roll goodness.

I'm in the process of rewiring almost all of my guitars and trying to finish up my first complete custom build, but the plans to try a Phat Cat neck in 2 of my guitars along with about six bridge pups.
I like the magnet swapping idea, so I'll probably try that, too.

+1 to what Super Rad suggested.
500k push/pull pots with 50's wiring.
I might even go with PIO caps, as well.

Good luck.
MM
 
Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

Thanks for the replies fellas.
If anyone else has an opinion on the subject, please chime in.

Jason :)
 
Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

blueman335 said:
I have a number of Phat Cats & play blues and classic rock. I'm not thrilled with Phat Cats with the stock magnets (twin A2's), as many of us here think they make the neck pretty dark. But when you put in a different combo to bump up the treble (A5/A2, A5/A3, A5/A4, or A5/A5) they suddenly get sparkle & life, and have that great open P-90 sound. Swapping magnets in them only takes a few minutes. So yes to Phat Cats, but you'll probably want to swap a magnet or two.
Click to expand...

I've not tried these magnet combos you suggest and maybe they do sound great. But whenever I read this stuff I always wonder: if these changes make the pickup so much better, why didn't Seymour make the pickup that way to begin with?

I mean surely he tried every possible wind and magnet combo under the sun before settling on two alnico 2 magnets.

Just wondering...

That said, I like the Phat Cat bridge just the way it is and I DO wish the neck Phat Cat was a little brighter. lol!
 
Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

Lewguitar said:
I've not tried these magnet combos you suggest and maybe they do sound great. But whenever I read this stuff I always wonder: if these changes make the pickup so much better, why didn't Seymour make the pickup that way to begin with?

I mean surely he tried every possible wind and magnet combo under the sun before settling on two alnico 2 magnets.

Just wondering...

That said, I like the Phat Cat bridge just the way it is and I DO wish the neck Phat Cat was a little brighter. lol!
Click to expand...

i thought that phat cats were originally made for hamer(by duncan), to their specs?
 
Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

Lewguitar said:
I've not tried these magnet combos you suggest and maybe they do sound great. But whenever I read this stuff I always wonder: if these changes make the pickup so much better, why didn't Seymour make the pickup that way to begin with?

I mean surely he tried every possible wind and magnet combo under the sun before settling on two alnico 2 magnets.
Click to expand...

I get the impression that Phat Cats weren't thoroughly tested with A2 magnets. There's been a number of complaints about how dark the neck is, and how "thin & weak" the bridge model is (Zhang being a high profile member who also voiced this). Maybe in bright woods the PCN is fine, but in my mahogany & Gibson-design guitars, it has zero treble or sparkle, and overpowers the puny PCB. A stock PCN in an LP? Out of the question for me, sounds like it's underwater. I have an A5/A3 in PCN in an LP, and now it sounds like a real single coil.

In the bridge PC, I feel there is a glaring need for more output & mids. With an A8/A4 magnet combo, I get the powerful, rich tone I want. It also balances much better with the neck's output.

While I love the Phat Cat concept (I have 10 of them), A2's aren't flexible enough to work well in a variety of woods. And the bulk of PC's will probably wind up in Gibson-design guitars, where I think they're at their worst with the stock magnets. I've pulled the A2's out of my PC's, as any other magnet sounds better to me.

I was initially skeptical of the ceramic magnets Duncan's used in some P-90's, but low and behold, they do sound good. Seymour nailed it. However, that's not the case here. Twin A2's are at best, a questionable choice. Just not versatile enough to work in some common woods, especially some of the most likely they'll be used in. Why not go with the Gibson P-90 formula of twin A5's? I've got some boutique Brian Gunsher P-90's that came stock with an A4/A2 pair (neck & bridge). I think the twin A2's hurt PC sales. Great concept, fumbled execution. Also: the base plate on PC's should screw into the coil, like on P-90's, instead of being loose, and there should be a separate ground wire so you can wire for phase without boosting the noise level. All this can be easily fixed by Duncan. I think Seymour himself would be the first to admit that his is not an infalliable celestial being, and occasionally does things less than 100% perfectly.
 
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Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

Blueman have you tried an A3/A4 PCN? How about twin A3s or twin A4s?
 
Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

Fusion1 said:
Blueman have you tried an A3/A4 PCN? How about twin A3s or twin A4s?
Click to expand...

Haven't tried those (there's so many potential pairings). All of this applies to P-90's and any HB-sized P-90 too. The A5/A3 was bright & chimey in the neck of an SG, but fine in an LP. Twin A3's would be best in the neck of a dark guitar: they'd be well-defined and eliminate any boominess that twin A5's might have. I've used an A5/A4 combo in most of my neck PC's and P-90's. Haven't done twin A5's yet, but that's only a matter of time.

A3/A4 would also be a viable option for a neck position; the A4 would thicken the mids a bit, and an A3 would preserve some treble & definition. The output would be on the medium to low side, so it wouldn't overpower a PAF in the bridge. An A3/A2 is another possibility.

I'd think twin A4's would work best in the bridge slot, although in a bright wood, they might be nice in the neck (certainly more treble than twin A2's).

Matching these up is like pollenating to make a hybrid plant. Look at the individual magnet characteristics, and see if the other magnet emphasizes them, moderates them, or fills in what's missing. You can do so much more with two magnets then you can with a HB. Put them in, play for a while in a few different rooms, and see if they need another tweak or not. This is cheap & fast to do, and you get instant results.
 
Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

blueman335 said:
Matching these up is like pollenating to make a hybrid plant. Look at the individual magnet characteristics, and see if the other magnet emphasizes them, moderates them, or fills in what's missing. You can do so much more with two magnets then you can with a HB. Put them in, play for a while in a few different rooms, and see if they need another tweak or not. This is cheap & fast to do, and you get instant results.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...what'cha been growing? :lmao:
 
Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

super rad stuff said:
i thought that phat cats were originally made for hamer(by duncan), to their specs?
Click to expand...

^^ yeah i thought he made them for a tom dumont sig guitar, a hamer?
maybe tom wanted the A2s, or they worked well in the specific guitar. no doubt probably weren't exactly going for a 'smoky blues' sound

2 A3s in a PCn? bueller?
 
Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

Actually, I prefer Phat Cats stock. I did the mag swap and found them gritty sounding, which I don't like. PGB would be a good compliment in the bridge. Regardless, you'll want to use 500k pots as 250k pots definitely leave the PCn too dark.
 
Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

Great thread. I was really curious about the Phat Cat pickup. I used a Gibson variant for a while in an Epiphone Sheraton II (matched against a Wolfetone Marshallhead) but eventually I ripped it out for a humbucker because I couldn't get over the hum....

How bad is the hum when it's matched against a humbucker pickup? Slightly noticeable? Annoying? (I found the P-94 to be annoying...)
 
Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

The_Sentry said:
Great thread. I was really curious about the Phat Cat pickup. I used a Gibson variant for a while in an Epiphone Sheraton II (matched against a Wolfetone Marshallhead) but eventually I ripped it out for a humbucker because I couldn't get over the hum....

How bad is the hum when it's matched against a humbucker pickup? Slightly noticeable? Annoying? (I found the P-94 to be annoying...)
Click to expand...

The full metal cover on Phat Cats reduces hum, and they have less noise than the typical P-90. It's not something that should stop you from getting one. With P-90's and HB-sized P-90's that have plastic covers, you don't have as much shielding.

I have a few guitars with a HB bridge & a Phat Cat neck (335 & SG) & it's a great combo. Having a fat single coil in the neck gives a more open sound (provided you swap magnets), along with some bite and cut, and mud disappears. This should be a common set-up on factory guitars.
 
Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

blueman335 said:
The full metal cover on Phat Cats reduces hum, and they have less noise than the typical P-90. It's not something that should stop you from getting one. With P-90's and HB-sized P-90's that have plastic covers, you don't have as much shielding.

I have a few guitars with a HB bridge & a Phat Cat neck (335 & SG) & it's a great combo. Having a fat single coil in the neck gives a more open sound (provided you swap magnets), along with some bite and cut, and mud disappears. This should be a common set-up on factory guitars.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip, Blueman! :1:

TBH I see this setup quite a bit....it makes me wonder if someone like Seymour Duncan should make a set with the magnets already swapped...and designed right out of the gate to be matched with a humbucker...:scratchch
 
Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

The_Sentry said:
Thanks for the tip, Blueman! :1:

TBH I see this setup quite a bit....it makes me wonder if someone like Seymour Duncan should make a set with the magnets already swapped...and designed right out of the gate to be matched with a humbucker...:scratchch
Click to expand...

It's been suggested here before, that a whole line of Phat Cats is possible with various magnet pairs, to cover just about every genre of music. Money's tight now, but once the economy is back on track, maybe Seymour will expand the Phat Cat line. Huge potenial. It'd also be nice to have models with different colored covers, like cream & black (with metal inside for shielding), to look like soap bar P-90's. You could have the look & sound of an original SG Special. And the great tuxedo look of an ebony LP Std with cream P-90's.
 
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Re: To compliment a Phat Cat neck? Need opinions.

blueman335 said:
It's been suggested here before, that a whole line of Phat Cats is possible with various magnet pairs, to cover just about every genre of music. Money's tight now, but once the economy is back on track, maybe Seymour will expand the Phat Cat line. Huge potenial. It'd also be nice to have models with different colored covers, like cream & black (white metal inside for shielding), to look like soap bar P-90's. You could have the look & sound of an original SG Special. And the great tuxedo look of an ebony LP Std with cream P-90's.
Click to expand...

I can't disagree with that at all!

I'll be the first to admit...I don't know nearly enough (probably never will), but as far as the P-90's go, when Epiphone re-introduced their '56 Goldtop people were jumping all over it. P-90's continue to be very popular, and a lot of guitar players like those...especially in the neck. The humbucker sized variant matched with a humbucker in the bridge seems to be a natural...

Thanks again for responding, Blueman! You sure do know your stuff! :cool2:
 
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