Tom mic suggestions.
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J Moose
New member
Re: Tom mic suggestions.
New heads and a drum key are WAY more important then what the microphone is...
Having said that I have a few go-to setups depending on the size of kit, placement of cymbals and desired tones for the recording. Deep round, toneful toms would be a whole other thing then a dry/tight 'metal' thing with the emphasized attack.
And actually, the mics might even be the same for those two setups... its all about choice of drumheads and tuning.
If you want maximum "note" and sustain then I like the Aquarian texture coated heads on top with a thinner head on bottom. Otherwise ambassadors are good... emperors are rounder w/less attack and sustain... diplomats are brighter & very open... great sustain but not a good choice for power hitters.
Sennheiser 421s are great if they can be squeezed in there and there aren't a ton of cymbals... 421s on rack toms & D112 on floors. I also use the 609s a lot... good tone, small profile & very easy to place. I dig 414s and condensers... tried some new side address AT mics recently that were great. Even the lowly 57s sound fine if the drums sound good... and always but ever check the phase of each against the overheads in mono.
Phase relationships and a drum key... my two most important tools.
And some moon gel... just for good measure!
New heads and a drum key are WAY more important then what the microphone is...
Having said that I have a few go-to setups depending on the size of kit, placement of cymbals and desired tones for the recording. Deep round, toneful toms would be a whole other thing then a dry/tight 'metal' thing with the emphasized attack.
And actually, the mics might even be the same for those two setups... its all about choice of drumheads and tuning.
If you want maximum "note" and sustain then I like the Aquarian texture coated heads on top with a thinner head on bottom. Otherwise ambassadors are good... emperors are rounder w/less attack and sustain... diplomats are brighter & very open... great sustain but not a good choice for power hitters.
Sennheiser 421s are great if they can be squeezed in there and there aren't a ton of cymbals... 421s on rack toms & D112 on floors. I also use the 609s a lot... good tone, small profile & very easy to place. I dig 414s and condensers... tried some new side address AT mics recently that were great. Even the lowly 57s sound fine if the drums sound good... and always but ever check the phase of each against the overheads in mono.
Phase relationships and a drum key... my two most important tools.
And some moon gel... just for good measure!
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Re: Tom mic suggestions.
My drummer uses Aquarian heads... not sure what kind but he tunes 'em well and uses moon gels for recording. They do sound great, I just was wanting to know what mic would be best for capturing that sound on tape.
I was thinking 421s would be a good choice. I'm told they work well for almost anything.
Is there an in-line device that can be used to flip the phase of a mic of your recording program doesn't have that feature?
Thanks for the help.
My drummer uses Aquarian heads... not sure what kind but he tunes 'em well and uses moon gels for recording. They do sound great, I just was wanting to know what mic would be best for capturing that sound on tape.
I was thinking 421s would be a good choice. I'm told they work well for almost anything.
Is there an in-line device that can be used to flip the phase of a mic of your recording program doesn't have that feature?
Thanks for the help.
J Moose
New member
Re: Tom mic suggestions.
'Tis not so much about the brand of heads as it is WHAT the construction of the drumhead is. Coated sounds different then clear, which are also markedly different then any of the various multi-ply fluid filled heads like pinstripes & powerstrokes. Bottom heads also matter... as does the tuning relationship between the top & bottom heads and little tweaks go a long long way in sustian and "note".
421's are great mics but not always the most practical... especially if there's lots of cymbals. The pure size is often the deal breaker... and I dunno man, what about cost? Three of those (or SM98s... or...) will knock 'ya back almost $1000... plus overheads & other mics, stands... cables to connect it all...
Flip side of all that is that you often don't need to put mics on EVERY piece of a drum kit... depending on what you'd like to accomplish.
Phase can be flipped simply enough by swapping pins 2 & 3 on an XLR cable... or get an in-line barrel connector... but really, any mic preamp worth plugging into WILL have a phase switch and I've yet to encounter a DAW application without polarity reverse on the mixer module aside from VERY VERY old versions of ProToolz...
Still, you want to be sure that the phase relationship is good on input... not on playback! By then its too late to get out of the chair and move some mics around...
My drummer uses Aquarian heads... not sure what kind but he tunes 'em well and uses moon gels for recording. They do sound great, I just was wanting to know what mic would be best for capturing that sound on tape.
I was thinking 421s would be a good choice. I'm told they work well for almost anything.
Is there an in-line device that can be used to flip the phase of a mic of your recording program doesn't have that feature?
Thanks for the help.
'Tis not so much about the brand of heads as it is WHAT the construction of the drumhead is. Coated sounds different then clear, which are also markedly different then any of the various multi-ply fluid filled heads like pinstripes & powerstrokes. Bottom heads also matter... as does the tuning relationship between the top & bottom heads and little tweaks go a long long way in sustian and "note".
421's are great mics but not always the most practical... especially if there's lots of cymbals. The pure size is often the deal breaker... and I dunno man, what about cost? Three of those (or SM98s... or...) will knock 'ya back almost $1000... plus overheads & other mics, stands... cables to connect it all...
Flip side of all that is that you often don't need to put mics on EVERY piece of a drum kit... depending on what you'd like to accomplish.
Phase can be flipped simply enough by swapping pins 2 & 3 on an XLR cable... or get an in-line barrel connector... but really, any mic preamp worth plugging into WILL have a phase switch and I've yet to encounter a DAW application without polarity reverse on the mixer module aside from VERY VERY old versions of ProToolz...
Still, you want to be sure that the phase relationship is good on input... not on playback! By then its too late to get out of the chair and move some mics around...
J Moose
New member
Re: Tom mic suggestions.
I had a pre-production meeting with a band earlier this evening & one of the things the drummer asked me... after outlining the bands goals & visions for their project, how I'd mic the drums and I said... simply... "I dunno yet."
Not only is it obviously a little early in the process (we haven't even outlined exactly which songs will be recorded, nor a budget) but it really does all depend... and a lot of it depends on whats happening in the room when the mics are broken out. Audibles on the line of scrimmage...
I've done sessions where no toms were miked; all toms were miked; one mic between two toms; mics on the top only; bottom mics only; top AND bottom mics (usually only on floor toms); and all sorts of other things...
Really though... drums...
The money is kick, snare & overheads and definitely room!
And truthfully... the drums are the foundation of EVERYTHING else... so if the drums sound bad then everything else will sound bad, no matter how good the guitar & vocal tones are.
What was the Les Claypool line... drums are the lettuce of the salad... if the lettuce is bad the salad is bad.
Toms though? Who cares... gimmie some 57s and a smackie as long as the kick, snare & OH's go through API's or something.
I had a pre-production meeting with a band earlier this evening & one of the things the drummer asked me... after outlining the bands goals & visions for their project, how I'd mic the drums and I said... simply... "I dunno yet."
Not only is it obviously a little early in the process (we haven't even outlined exactly which songs will be recorded, nor a budget) but it really does all depend... and a lot of it depends on whats happening in the room when the mics are broken out. Audibles on the line of scrimmage...
I've done sessions where no toms were miked; all toms were miked; one mic between two toms; mics on the top only; bottom mics only; top AND bottom mics (usually only on floor toms); and all sorts of other things...
Really though... drums...
The money is kick, snare & overheads and definitely room!
And truthfully... the drums are the foundation of EVERYTHING else... so if the drums sound bad then everything else will sound bad, no matter how good the guitar & vocal tones are.
What was the Les Claypool line... drums are the lettuce of the salad... if the lettuce is bad the salad is bad.
Toms though? Who cares... gimmie some 57s and a smackie as long as the kick, snare & OH's go through API's or something.
ginormous
Understatmentologist
Re: Tom mic suggestions.
My father was in the room for a lot of NYC jazz recordings. From what he tells me, the drummer's awareness of miking went from "don't get in my way" to "I want model X on the snare, model Y on the kick, some good condensers about 5-6 feet overhead... and don't get in my way."
And the R&B/rock guys were even worse; telling him how to mic up their kit ("I want the snare mic at a 30-degree angle... not 15, and not 45!"), and bringing their own hard case! To an ol' skooler like him, that was a slap in the face. You don't tell anyone who got Bernard Purdie, Jack DeJohnette or Steve Gadd on tape how to record drums!
+1 to Moose; if the drummer doesn't know how to tune up, the cause is lost before the first cable is plugged in.
Aside from that, a good set of name-brand dynamics (Audio-Technica, Shure, Electro-Voice, etc) are quite useful. They'll take the pounding and say "Is that all you got? You ain't nothin'! I recorded a gunshot @ 6-inches on-axis, ya wuss!"
My father was in the room for a lot of NYC jazz recordings. From what he tells me, the drummer's awareness of miking went from "don't get in my way" to "I want model X on the snare, model Y on the kick, some good condensers about 5-6 feet overhead... and don't get in my way."
And the R&B/rock guys were even worse; telling him how to mic up their kit ("I want the snare mic at a 30-degree angle... not 15, and not 45!"), and bringing their own hard case! To an ol' skooler like him, that was a slap in the face. You don't tell anyone who got Bernard Purdie, Jack DeJohnette or Steve Gadd on tape how to record drums!
+1 to Moose; if the drummer doesn't know how to tune up, the cause is lost before the first cable is plugged in.
Aside from that, a good set of name-brand dynamics (Audio-Technica, Shure, Electro-Voice, etc) are quite useful. They'll take the pounding and say "Is that all you got? You ain't nothin'! I recorded a gunshot @ 6-inches on-axis, ya wuss!"
Virtual Kevorkian
New member
Re: Tom mic suggestions.
MD421, or Audix D2 for rack, D4 for floor. Both are great, Audix are a bit brighter, which brings out the attack a bit.
MD421, or Audix D2 for rack, D4 for floor. Both are great, Audix are a bit brighter, which brings out the attack a bit.
S
supernosher
Guest
Re: Tom mic suggestions.
J Moose hit the key points nicely.
I just want to say that mic placement on drums is even more sensitive than on guitar cabs.
Phase can be off relatively by any value, not just 180 degrees, which is what a polarity switch will do.
I would save money and grab a few i5's or 57's depending on the sound you are chasing.
J Moose hit the key points nicely.
I just want to say that mic placement on drums is even more sensitive than on guitar cabs.
Phase can be off relatively by any value, not just 180 degrees, which is what a polarity switch will do.
I would save money and grab a few i5's or 57's depending on the sound you are chasing.
NecroPolo
New member
Re: Tom mic suggestions.
Hm. That's what usually I tell THEM before I even open the mic case :scratchch
All good advices here in this thread. I can totally agree:
- If the drummer doens't know how to tune the drums properly: you lose;
- If the drummer doesn't beat the crap out of the drumset: you lose;
- If the drummer doesn't keep the beat, you're in an editing hell: you lose;
- If even you don't know how to tune up that boompsy: you lose double times;
- If the drummer is a nitpicking axxhole: you lose.
I run a budget studio with few but okay equipment. If the drummer keeps telling D-shings (drummer Dr-All-Know sh.tty things), I start to attach my ddrum trigger set instead of mics and place just two overheads... Usually, they stop telling D-shings immediately.
Hm. D-shings are far more common than G-shings, B-shings or S-shings. Bass players are the easiest to deal with.
I usually like to keep it natural, with the least possible number of mics. I usually break it down to 8 (depends on the number of toms).
- SM57 for toms (not the best, but they are dependable and usually deliver good results)
- Beta57, SM57 or I5 on the snare (depends), I tend to use one
- Beta52 for kick
- Different condensers, from $40 noname budget stuff that sometimes work to higher class BPM, Rode, AKG and AT - all my condensers are borrowed. We share a lot of equipment with other guys here. Why should I buy the pie when buddies have all the slices?
Hm. That's what usually I tell THEM before I even open the mic case :scratchch
All good advices here in this thread. I can totally agree:
- If the drummer doens't know how to tune the drums properly: you lose;
- If the drummer doesn't beat the crap out of the drumset: you lose;
- If the drummer doesn't keep the beat, you're in an editing hell: you lose;
- If even you don't know how to tune up that boompsy: you lose double times;
- If the drummer is a nitpicking axxhole: you lose.
I run a budget studio with few but okay equipment. If the drummer keeps telling D-shings (drummer Dr-All-Know sh.tty things), I start to attach my ddrum trigger set instead of mics and place just two overheads... Usually, they stop telling D-shings immediately.
Hm. D-shings are far more common than G-shings, B-shings or S-shings. Bass players are the easiest to deal with.
I usually like to keep it natural, with the least possible number of mics. I usually break it down to 8 (depends on the number of toms).
- SM57 for toms (not the best, but they are dependable and usually deliver good results)
- Beta57, SM57 or I5 on the snare (depends), I tend to use one
- Beta52 for kick
- Different condensers, from $40 noname budget stuff that sometimes work to higher class BPM, Rode, AKG and AT - all my condensers are borrowed. We share a lot of equipment with other guys here. Why should I buy the pie when buddies have all the slices?
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Hellion
New member
Re: Tom mic suggestions.
The only things that I ever really worry about are snare, bass drum, hi hat (and that's marginal) and overhead. I've gotten really decent sounds out of a 57 for toms, and never really have had a reason to look further, although I do hear that 421s work well.
The only things that I ever really worry about are snare, bass drum, hi hat (and that's marginal) and overhead. I've gotten really decent sounds out of a 57 for toms, and never really have had a reason to look further, although I do hear that 421s work well.
